It’s a buzzword, a jargon, it is used to give impact your argument since it sounds good, it’s also pretty overused (or abused I could say). I don’t see you defining it anywhere, you talk about how you want “full player agency and…”. After the “and” part it’s not a definition it’s something else.
I find that word pretty meaningless in most cases and used mainly for emotional impact. “Full player agency” or I would say the absolute player agency isn’t a good thing either. Games have to have a certain amount of player agency in certain areas depending on what they want to achieve. More doesn’t mean better.
In DT for example it was the active choice of the developers to make kiting enemies harder, disablers stronger, and overall surviving alone more difficult. This is taking away player agency, and it was a good change (IMO).
Again we can let it rest here, I’m not motivated to go into this further, and it was a pretty pointless side thing. You can say I was triggered by it.
What people want and and would like (more) tend to differ. I think if you stay with the “player agency” priority it would give you a lot of it (a lot more than your idea) if it’s balanced correctly.
PS: I’ll probably give this topic a rest for a while if something interesting doesn’t come up.
I was really hoping we’d have gotten something more like a less hardcore GTFO, where the players are encouraged to sneak through some parts of the map killing small groups of enemies in between holding off big hordes at certain points. There’s just not really enough difference between the gameplay in DT and VT, which is somewhat expected, they’re games in the same series, but idk I wish FS experimented with the formula a little more than just adding better ranged combat.
This is a good idea and seems like it would be pretty easy to implement. We really need some kind of reward for both successfully killing and not alerting the DH, right now they literally just exist to waste either you time or your ammo.
I did not use it to give impact to my argument. I used it to keep the initial statements short while also making clear what i want.
I did not claim to have defined the meaning of the word, nor do i need to define what it means, since the word already has a meaning.
I gave examples of how the increased player agency in gear progression could be achieved and what i would like to see.
Stop ignoring that in order to argue with me.
I gave meaning to it through context, and did not appeal to emotion anywhere in any of the arguments that i made.
It does not matter in what context the word is used by other people.
This has nothing to do with what i said and is irrelevant to the topic. I specifically talked about player agency in the gear progression system.
Look @Flawless I’m tired of this, if you go in this direction fine, you just used to word wrong. Full player agency god damn it.
I’m pissed because first, you use an increased player agency which can be a lot of different things and doesn’t in the slightest have to mean deterministic or non-endless progression. Then write “Full player agency” which would mean something entirely different from what you described (if we would say something like “Full player agency” actually exists).
If we take the direction of this you dodge my question which I assumed you didn’t and written something like “I don’t know if the game will recover, but I think changing it to the way I want is key” instead you gave me a half page wishlist of what you want to see with two links to full multiple page ideas.
Let this topic rest. I’m already said I’m pretty hostile toward the word and we can put it aside.
In the future, if I ask you a question twice, and ask you to please answer it be a bit more specific and you will avoid going into a long argument with me because I tend to think it shouldn’t just be another dodge. I now think it clearly is.
One could argue that you might reduce that somewhat by keeping other good stuff while you are looking for the One, but that increases the item management woes. In any case, if we start from that 1000, once you collect all the blessings per weapon, the number should probably be 300-500 per weapon. OTOH, each new weapon, each new career is bound to impact negatively the total amount.
Still insanely too much, in any case. I guess FS is hoping that we would play this game until death of old age.
CONTENT EDITED: Oh, yes, I forgot the FS tendency to change something fundamental in the concepts, which means that at any point the thousands of hours* put into the game will result in effectively bricked gear.
* Some are bound to put that many hours, in spite of everything.
It’s really more about how some players play that put the pace of the game for everyone, IMHO. In all three games there is a balance between speed of progress and defensiveness, but once someone starts pushing towards speed, too much defensiveness becomes a liability - and each game is rarely punishing speed for good players in a bad team, but the slowness of the good player in a bad team is more dangerous.
Kind of the point of an endless loot system is to make it close to impossible to get your character to a “perfect” gear leave (then they release more powerful stuff). I don’t know if your numbers are accurate, but 300-500 hours for a single “perfect” item (of your choice) with average luck, doesn’t sound awful compared to other games that rely heavily on this.
Although I think it’s probably trophy-level useful to get from almost perfect to perfect. Still, I’d like to see some numbers, hit me up if some comprehensive data comes out.
If you want some numbers I calculated that a dedicated (but not no life) player has around 86% chance to see at least 1 (there is a reasonable potential for more than one of course) perfect curio on 1 random character with non-useless perks after 1000h playtime only using shop and Melk. My conclusion is that this it’s very low and there should be some target farming added for curios (and the +curio perk doesn’t count, it’s ridiculous you have to give up power for loot in a co-op-oriented game).
Edit: Also it was 1000 hour not including things like leveling the characters and I think I was slightly leanient in some regards.
That is why i specified in the same post where i said it.
I explicitly did not say that.
I did answer (in a VERY specific way) and did not dodge anything.
Considering the way you respond to what ever i say, it seems like the only way to avoid a long argument with you, is to simply ignore you.
It is pretty clear that every thing you criticized in regard to what i said, was made up by you and either just a bold lie, or caused by your own lack of comprehension.
I took the time to correct your wrong statements and to explain everything to you, like you are a child.
You kept making things up to keep the argument going…
This ends here.
Stop it. This is pathetic.
I agree with this, the problem imo is that this isn’t a mmorpg, it’s a coop horde shooter (and there isn’t enough diverse content to grind out that many hours to get it). With time it will obviously get better, but with the current state of the game I don’t believe it’s justifiable to have to grind that much for a single weapon.
I agree. I could see this level of grind justified in free to play games or games with campaigns and “ends to it”. With various different enemies and levels. Who cares about break points when there’s 80+ levels, 60 different enemy types, and the enemies can be level 1-100 with varying amounts of health? And where your player character probably has a dozen active abilities, another dozen passive ones, 100 feats to choose from, and loot dropping on you like a mountain.
Darktide is, and should, be like Vermintide 2, what makes a tide game, a tide game, imo, is challenging yourself with specific builds at harder difficulties.
But darktide insists on making you spend thousands of hours to try things out and never being able to easily swap weapon configs around when your weapons are so critical to how your character functions (with very limited feat selection and blessings having a huge impact on weapons) that it just infuriates players and detracts from the main selling point and identity of the game.
“Perfect” items aren’t really meant to be obtained in systems like this. It’s more like a trophy or something. It’s a different mindset in aRPGs where you know your drop won’t be perfect, but it can always be a bit better.
Having an obsession with “perfect” items in a system like that can be pretty unhealthy if your expectations aren’t managed correctly.
IMO, absolutely perfect items aren’t something that is worth the discussion in the current system. How much you have to grind to get good, “the good”, great or near-perfect items are much more applicable.
Although I do understand that some people can’t stand it and that others can have better stuff than them (even if it’s just 2 points of extra health). In that case, voicing the option that this doesn’t fly for them is fine.
PS: I already stated that combining working systems from different genres can work if the developer does it in a good way. I don’t think DTs loot system is currently a good representation of a fine or great “endless” gear progression system. We can agree to disagree on this.
I used to agree with this sentiment and still do when it comes to the base item score. However, with limited career options / content variety I would like to experiment with different combos. I cannot do it efficiently with random perks and blessings being locked. I need specific combos.
I agree. I pretty much have settled for t3 blessings, “decent” weapon rolls, and don’t even care about perks. My problem is, with a fairly comprised list imo, when I spend an evening doing missions etc, and spend all the dockets and plassteel I earned to get no weapons over 350 and only a couple of t3 blessings I didn’t want for the weapon type. Makes me feel like I “wasted” my time, and again I wouldn’t have this big a problem if there was more content (although it would still be a problem imo).
I do agree on this, except maybe I would say it’s a bad version of it just because there’s not enough supporting content.
I totally agree that they need to put out more content and a class already, it’s like 4-5 months since release or something and we got close to nothing (2 weapons 1 map both cut from the original release…). Maybe if I’m generous next patch will have like 4 weapons, and that’s not a lot either.
Currently, there is a handful of weapons that have a lot of blessings you can run and try out while they have one you usually need (or much more powerful than the others). Evis and Caxe are pretty good examples. If you have the blessing unlocked one single weapon can be tweaked around to try different stuff.
Weapons requiring two specific blessings to be run is an entirely different issue I’ve put them into the balance category instead of the loot category. Same with weapons with 10+ blessings, like wtf is that?
PS: BTW I’m not trying to downplay your concern, I’m also starting to get to the level where “I want to try this out” is getting more limited.
I personally don’t have this issue past the loot update + 50 games, but that might just be a luck thing. I also usually lean on using or tinkering with something I already have (or just picked up from Melk), instead of going for something I don’t, and when it comes to that I usually have a big stack of currency and plasteel to burn. Again this can just be luck thing btw, doing a few missions (especially below 5) and not getting anything from Brunt is quite realistic.
This is the thing. There are blessings/perks which make little sense on specific weapons and those which require a paired blessing to even consider it for testing, nevermind being good. RNG makes obtaining these combos really difficult and results in “wasted” weapons, resources and player time.
Also Fatshark AGAIN designed their game around RNG and promoting limited specific blessings on specific weapons, instead of depth and variet of playstyles.
The present loot and crafting systems aren’t progression. They are gambling, only instead of wasting your money, you waste your time. This doesn’t work well with most players. They feel cheated and frustrated and I don’t blame them. They would like to explore what the game has to offer in terms of content. I would rather have them in the game, working towards goals, they FEEL they can achieve. People have limited time for entertainment. If they feel cheated, and that their time is not respected, they will leave for other games. Like 90% or is it now 95% of the initial player base. Except the fps performance issues, stability and lack of content, the RNG being imprinted on every game system is the reason behind those stats.
“A” class? They need to put out the other 11 classes VT 2 got at launch lol.
Was very defeating for me, although yeah it is probably better to work from a base than to try and build from scratch. Just annoying to have work wasted imo, especially since I don’t have tons of time to play this game. I would prefer getting good weapons fast and using them on different missions and challenges, but I know in general that’s a vocal minority.