Could we get some rationale behind changes?

wow. this forum never ceases to amaze me.

There’s some bad stuff, some questionable stuff, but also there IS some good stuff in this update.

Shade - wtf were they thinking nerfing this class? Especially when Huntsman is still broken. Why was damage cap even removed? We can disagree about if it was a bad idea or not to have to begin with, but I don’t get the change.

Glaive/XSword - I don’t get why they chose to nerf it in such a way that it affected another weapon that was not OP. I rather feel like it maybe needs less cleave, similar to how it was in the first game. This would make it more of a dedicated anti-armor weapon at the expense of horde-clearing ability.
The other weapon balance changes are all buffs that need some testing, but could be quite positive. Would love more of a reason to use the Great Axe.

The performance change has been a bit funky, but by switching from DX12 to DX11 I did see an improvement in fps and haven’t had any stutters. So . . . that’s sort of a mixed bag. Hopefully this will positively affect others.

The new dialogue is actually wonderful, along with the change to how frequently they talk. Sometimes it is actually QUIET, and I can hear backstab sounds now. Though I cannot for the life of me pick out the new melee headshot sound.

I have had limited time to test this, but the changes to Chaos Hordes . . . seem to actually be working. I have only seen hyper-density one time so far, and that was while they were coming through a doorway, which is to be expected. Other times, I have seen them spread out properly and not just cram 25 dudes into a square meter.

1 Like

I have to say i really wouldn’t want to be in Fatsharks position right now.
As you can see in this posts
http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/1-0-8b-removing-the-damage-cap-per-server-tick-broke-the-game/22781
http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/damage-cap-removed-huntsman-shade/22841

quite a lot of people really liked the removal of the damage cap.
So i think Fatshark didn’t have a chance to make it right. A lot of people would defenitely have complained.
In my opinion they should have reimplemented damage cap and left shade and exesword unchainched.
Nerfing glaive is ok, but i would have nerfed the cleave and not the charged attack.
I really don’t like the changes, but i can kinda understand why they did it this way.
I still hope they find a bether solution

1 Like

I agree with you completely - especially about how I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes. They’ve made some legit mistakes for sure, but there’s a LOT of toxicity towards them. And people - especially when they’re worked up - tend to see what they want to see in statements.

Though I suspect that it’s not cowardice that is keeping them quiet, but probably the fact that they’re all really, really busy.

1 Like

On maces, at least, it’s a crunch, like you just smashed in a skull. Quite satisfying. Haven’t tested it on bladed weapons.

Thanks, I’ll try to listen harder, haha. For the record, though, I do have terrible ears.

Guys, damage cap is a so lazy solution… just cut off part of the game (for example making useless some talents/properties/traits).

Agreed, but this could have been a temporary solution until they figure out how to balance Shade and Huntsman. That’s what beta versions for - you test stuff, you recognize problems, you fix them. If you can’t fix them right away - you make a temporary workaround.

I didn’t see great problems with hunts and shade… IMHO, in 1.0.7, they were just a little outperformed. Without damage cap, these careers have “more space”. I love this.
Little adjustements should be enough. Obv talinkg about beta… cause with “new” 1.0.8, shade is really weak.

We are preparing a statement as well as some hotfixes. Needless to say, some of these changes are the result of poor internal communication which led to a misunderstanding (or two).

21 Likes

That’s great.

That’s bad.

Nice to hear about ya again. This eases a bit my worries about the game. I hope you can solve those internal communication problems as soon as possible. Thanks for the transparency.

2 Likes

I don’t always reply that often. Maybe I should. But I do read alot of what people say and mostly I see the same group of individuals that keep complaining on this forum. Sometimes I find their complaints valid but most of the time I see it just as whine. I understand that alot of people want to radical changes just because they feel it’s the best course of action. But leave that to the devs.

Yet again I’m alone here with thinking this patch was good. The game runs alot more smoother than before. No real issues from a technical POV. Increased FPS overall. Better effects (Like fire, bombs, spells etc). I have no technical problems at all when running this game.

Only gameplay issue I really question is how OP huntsman is right now. It’s back to first closed beta where a Huntsman can solo pretty much any boss with any setup.
And I do this with a bow… You really need to tweak him back abit because he hits WAY to hard on bosses now.

I don’t understand why so many people turn their opinion so quickly regarding this game. For example Steam reviews are erratic all over the place. It seems clear to me that most people seem to forget the amount of work it takes to fix and tweak a game. Not to mention that Fatshark are not a Triple A studio. They are a small studio. And yet, they manage to listen to their community, implement changes and fixes at a regular pace. No ingame microtransaction. No day-1 DLCs. Everyone has the same opportunity to recieve items and progress in the game. It’s so many things done right.
I mean even a titan such as Blizzard are lightyears slower at fixing their games with tweaks and balances and when they do, they completly screw everything up and break things.

I still play this game with my friends every day. I’m fairly certain my entire team still think that this is without question the best 4-player co-op game in this genre. It’s still a 4/5 game for me.
Keep up the amazing work Fatshark. I know you have alot on your plate and for the most time the only people you hear talking are those complaining. But we who love this game are here aswell.

9 Likes

Props to you for responding :slight_smile: crap happens, were all human and make mistakes, i am happy for the transparency about the issues and hope to hear from you guys soon. :heart: FS

2 Likes

But don’t you see the same group of individuals, that keeps praising the devs no matter what?

I am glad everything worked out great for you, but there is A LOT of people, that have technical issues now after 1.0.8. Just visit Bugs branch if you don’t believe my words.

I am not gonna comment on that. These arguments have been said and argued about so many times, that I simple don’t see a reason in repeating them. With one exception, though.

It’s not the game, that is bad, it’s the community.

1 Like

I get what you’re saying, but part of this is because their level of communication is truly at an absolute minimum. Apart from a very few direct response posts, like the one in this thread, the most they will do is aknowledge bugs - and even then even that they only do sometimes.

Roadmap is removed, newsletters tend to talk about future content with no release window, patches are released with woefully incomplete patchnotes and so on.

Also, listening to our feedback…well. I’m not sure. It took them a very long time to slightly increase weaponswap on Kruber’s longbow. Accuracy on zoom is still all over the place through, so essentially the zoom is less than worthless, and is actually detrimental to the weapon, giving you a 1-second window to fire before you lose all accuracy. Color/ult bug for HS has been reported since I don’t even know which version, still not fixed.

Green dust has been a huge, massive, endgame-canceling problem for anyone who plays this a lot for weeks now. FS only reply so far is that they’re aware of it, and they don’t think its important to fix.

Dual weapons being broken into the ground for Shade was widely talked about during the beta, nothing fixed for live.

An absolute ton of weapons need looking at to make them worthwhile using in legend, most of them widely talked about in forums, very little has happened.

Of course there are positives - crit procs seem to work on Sienna’s staffs now, which is awesome. (Though again, nothing about this in any patchnotes ever, so you have to expirement with precious dust to find out for yourself.)
They fixed quite a few of the bugs in the beta, but not nearly all of them - not even bugs reported and aknowledged of day 1 of the beta.

Simply put, I think they need a rethink of how they do things. If they’re going to do a beta branch, then by golly, do a proper beta branch! Update the beta, so we can test and bug report the updates! They know full well that they break things that they don’t catch themselves - so why not update beta and let us test it, instead of leaving the same beta version out for a week and a half, then push something live?

What happens is what happened now - they put out nerfs that apparantly were never intended, patch notes were incomplete etc etc.

Yes there is whine in this forum, but trust me on this - no one takes the time to come and complain on these forums without being very passionate about the game. I play it ALOT, but it can be super frustrating, especially to experiment with new characters and new builds. I am literally stuck at 999+ (so who knows how many) blue dust and 0 greens. The same bugs being there patch after patch also adds to frustration.

Basically, the only way to let FS know what we’d like changed is to come on here. If it takes 200 threads about green dust before FS realizes how important it is (to at least some of us), then so be it. Someone will keep posting about it until they fix it, not to whine or be an entitled kid, but because they are passionate about the game, and frustrated that the end game customization and build-try-outs simply don’t exist in the game for those who play the most/play only on legend.

5 Likes

Yes, undoubtedly they should, but there is one more concern, and that is technical state of the game. Judging by the speed of bugfixing and by the speed at which new bugs are appearing, I am afraid, that their main problem right now is the quality of game’s code. I mean it’s either that, or there is 3.5 people working on fixes and bugs, but honestly I don’t think that latter is the case. I think devs are really working at the game, probably working hard - I mean why wouldn’t they.

But since despite their work the improvements are so minor, the above factors become very alarming and very frightening to me, idk about you. And this also might or might not indicate big structural problems inside the company.

Well according to dataminers/outside software devs, the math and code used in this game (particularly for damage/clave/stagger etc calculations) is wildly complicated and just chock full of edge cases.

There could be two reasons for this. Either they have done this to try to obfuscate game mechanics from mining.

Or they have done this because the devs in charge of the math code have designed a jumbled mess, either because of lack of skill, or because whoever first designed it made a jumbled mess and instead of fixing it, they just keep adding and building on top of the jumbled mess.

Frankly, the first option seems unlikely. If they wanted to obfuscate it, they could simply have ran the code through…yes…an obfuscator. It’s a thing that devs do.

Which leaves the second option as they most likely one, which honestly isn’t…encouraging.

1 Like

No, that’s a fantasy. No one obfuscates the code like this. I mean you say later on, that this is an unlikely scenario. But that’s not just unlikely, that’s unreal.

Sadly, such things are destined to fall apart. I already wrote about it, so I am not gonna repeat myself

I would love to find some hole in that logic, but I see no outs. There is 4 options:

  1. The devs are doing nothing.
  2. They work on a secret project.
  3. The code is awful.
  4. Business process and communication inside FS are awful.

And all 4 options are bad. Not equally bad, but bad. And moreover, several of them might be true simultaneously.

Thank you for replying. A big reason for a lot of the ire on the forums stems more from a lack of communication than it is from the issues themselves, so the more you’re able to open up to the community and the more honestly you’re able to do it the better. Even just knowing there was some kind of miscommunication goes a long way.

6 Likes
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu