Could we get some rationale behind changes?

Props to you for responding :slight_smile: crap happens, were all human and make mistakes, i am happy for the transparency about the issues and hope to hear from you guys soon. :heart: FS

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But don’t you see the same group of individuals, that keeps praising the devs no matter what?

I am glad everything worked out great for you, but there is A LOT of people, that have technical issues now after 1.0.8. Just visit Bugs branch if you don’t believe my words.

I am not gonna comment on that. These arguments have been said and argued about so many times, that I simple don’t see a reason in repeating them. With one exception, though.

It’s not the game, that is bad, it’s the community.

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I get what you’re saying, but part of this is because their level of communication is truly at an absolute minimum. Apart from a very few direct response posts, like the one in this thread, the most they will do is aknowledge bugs - and even then even that they only do sometimes.

Roadmap is removed, newsletters tend to talk about future content with no release window, patches are released with woefully incomplete patchnotes and so on.

Also, listening to our feedback…well. I’m not sure. It took them a very long time to slightly increase weaponswap on Kruber’s longbow. Accuracy on zoom is still all over the place through, so essentially the zoom is less than worthless, and is actually detrimental to the weapon, giving you a 1-second window to fire before you lose all accuracy. Color/ult bug for HS has been reported since I don’t even know which version, still not fixed.

Green dust has been a huge, massive, endgame-canceling problem for anyone who plays this a lot for weeks now. FS only reply so far is that they’re aware of it, and they don’t think its important to fix.

Dual weapons being broken into the ground for Shade was widely talked about during the beta, nothing fixed for live.

An absolute ton of weapons need looking at to make them worthwhile using in legend, most of them widely talked about in forums, very little has happened.

Of course there are positives - crit procs seem to work on Sienna’s staffs now, which is awesome. (Though again, nothing about this in any patchnotes ever, so you have to expirement with precious dust to find out for yourself.)
They fixed quite a few of the bugs in the beta, but not nearly all of them - not even bugs reported and aknowledged of day 1 of the beta.

Simply put, I think they need a rethink of how they do things. If they’re going to do a beta branch, then by golly, do a proper beta branch! Update the beta, so we can test and bug report the updates! They know full well that they break things that they don’t catch themselves - so why not update beta and let us test it, instead of leaving the same beta version out for a week and a half, then push something live?

What happens is what happened now - they put out nerfs that apparantly were never intended, patch notes were incomplete etc etc.

Yes there is whine in this forum, but trust me on this - no one takes the time to come and complain on these forums without being very passionate about the game. I play it ALOT, but it can be super frustrating, especially to experiment with new characters and new builds. I am literally stuck at 999+ (so who knows how many) blue dust and 0 greens. The same bugs being there patch after patch also adds to frustration.

Basically, the only way to let FS know what we’d like changed is to come on here. If it takes 200 threads about green dust before FS realizes how important it is (to at least some of us), then so be it. Someone will keep posting about it until they fix it, not to whine or be an entitled kid, but because they are passionate about the game, and frustrated that the end game customization and build-try-outs simply don’t exist in the game for those who play the most/play only on legend.

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Yes, undoubtedly they should, but there is one more concern, and that is technical state of the game. Judging by the speed of bugfixing and by the speed at which new bugs are appearing, I am afraid, that their main problem right now is the quality of game’s code. I mean it’s either that, or there is 3.5 people working on fixes and bugs, but honestly I don’t think that latter is the case. I think devs are really working at the game, probably working hard - I mean why wouldn’t they.

But since despite their work the improvements are so minor, the above factors become very alarming and very frightening to me, idk about you. And this also might or might not indicate big structural problems inside the company.

Well according to dataminers/outside software devs, the math and code used in this game (particularly for damage/clave/stagger etc calculations) is wildly complicated and just chock full of edge cases.

There could be two reasons for this. Either they have done this to try to obfuscate game mechanics from mining.

Or they have done this because the devs in charge of the math code have designed a jumbled mess, either because of lack of skill, or because whoever first designed it made a jumbled mess and instead of fixing it, they just keep adding and building on top of the jumbled mess.

Frankly, the first option seems unlikely. If they wanted to obfuscate it, they could simply have ran the code through…yes…an obfuscator. It’s a thing that devs do.

Which leaves the second option as they most likely one, which honestly isn’t…encouraging.

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No, that’s a fantasy. No one obfuscates the code like this. I mean you say later on, that this is an unlikely scenario. But that’s not just unlikely, that’s unreal.

Sadly, such things are destined to fall apart. I already wrote about it, so I am not gonna repeat myself

I would love to find some hole in that logic, but I see no outs. There is 4 options:

  1. The devs are doing nothing.
  2. They work on a secret project.
  3. The code is awful.
  4. Business process and communication inside FS are awful.

And all 4 options are bad. Not equally bad, but bad. And moreover, several of them might be true simultaneously.

Thank you for replying. A big reason for a lot of the ire on the forums stems more from a lack of communication than it is from the issues themselves, so the more you’re able to open up to the community and the more honestly you’re able to do it the better. Even just knowing there was some kind of miscommunication goes a long way.

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I wish they could come up w/ a good way to regularly communicate w/ community (while avoiding the pitfalls of trolls, promises, awkward moments). I personally wish i could bounce ideas off them. I know they avoid forums cause it kills the convo, but I think it would go a long way if they did in fact respond more (besides just bug confirmations). Imo, in situations like this, with a “small” team working on a game, transparency and constant communication and feedback is more important than pure content/bug fix releases.

For example, endless green dust posts, they respond they are aware, but maybe include reasoning as weeks go by as to why its not such a simple fix, or even just a quick temporary patch that makes it so you get some green dust for every chest opened in champ/legend until a more perm fix can be applied

That being said, maybe i am foolish, but i like to talk to devs/pick their brains :smiley: for now, this seems like a teeny step in positive comunication, so yay

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Considering the whole conversation now is, “FS WTF IS GOING ON!” I think it’s time for them to get more engaged. For weeks now, it’s been just some people giving feedback and other people downplaying any negatives and theorycrafting potential reasons for the dev issues, so it’s become something of a circle jerk. Them talking to us would just keep the conversation productive.

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Of course you take things out of context…
Yes, I do see those that praise the devs aswell. But that was not the point I wanted to make at this time. Just because I say that I see alot of complaints does not mean that I don’t see those that show praise.

I never said I don’t believe what others are saying. I read the bug forum aswell. I simply stated my own experience with playing the game. It might be because I have a really good high-end system. Since I’m running everything on high/ultra with over 100 fps. Those with lower-end systems might be more affected by the changes. I wouldn’t know since I don’t have a low-end system so I cannot try it.

Then why bring it up at all? You could have just ignored it. :smiley:

Atleast for once I agree with you. But this is not a Vermintide 2 only problem. This problem is all over the gaming sphere. Generally speaking from my experience the worst community in the gaming scene is those in Blizzard games. (I have managed to avoid DOTA/LOL since I just don’t like those games) Most people there are really obnoxious and entitled. Vermintide 2 community is not even close to as toxic as say Overwatch community. I would put Vermintide 2 community on the better edge of community. Allthough… I have to be honest and say that I do not play to often with “randoms” in V2. I mostly play with my friends and most the the time when we are not a full team it’s better to just have a bot as the 4th since they do better.

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thats all we ask, some community presence. and not just 2 dudes on twitch playing veteren difficulty selling socks. i mean actually engaging with the WHOLE community, *hint hint gamers gaming on legend with 800+ hrs… please try your best to be not so disconnected with this product you’ve already sold us. i mean seriously, why do the invisible walls still exist on these vastly updated maps that have been in beta over 2 weeks ago and with you guys knowing about them SOMEHOW make it onto the live build

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Version 1.0.8.1 is coming soon and addresses some of the current issues that arose from patch 1.0.8. We are rolling back some of the inadvertent changes which came out of yesterday’s patch.

Shade Kerillian was broken during the 1.0.8 beta. The numbers she put out with the Glaive were far too high - this was due to her damage being uncapped against some Bosses and Lords. We wanted to make changes to the damage system in the way we synchronize damage from attacks between players. At the same time, we were making fixes to Shade’s “Infiltrate” Career Skill. These two changes inadvertently changed the way caps were being applied to the Shade’s damage output. Another consequences were multiple misunderstandings and mistakes that piled up to a big mess, affecting the Executioner Sword, since it shared some of the same damage templates as the Glaive.

The Shade should now work the same way she did in 1.0.7. The inadvertent changes to the Executioner Sword have also been reverted.

Aside from these bug fixes, we also wanted to give her more options in available weapons. Shade Kerillian’s “Infiltrate” Career Skill applies a four-time power boost multiplier when attacking while stealthed. We applied individual modifiers to these bonuses to the Glaive and Dual Daggers. We lowered the damage Glaives do when attacking from stealth, and increased the damage from Dual Daggers. This means that Dual Daggers should now be able to kill two Chaos Warriors when lined up correctly, when attacking from stealth.

And while the Glaive - and pretty much every other weapon, completely nukes any regular infantry enemies, when attacking out of stealth - just as in previous versions, they should no longer melt bosses. And specifically Bile Trolls, which were missing damage multiplier caps.

The full notes will come with release, most likely early tomorrow.

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Does it mean that cleave changes done to the Infiltrate will be reverted or just damage?

Thank you for filling us in.

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Thank you, I appreciate some input and hope that these changes could be the start of a positive trend.

So the cleave is back!

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TY, somehow I missed that part. Hello, SnSnD my old friends :grinning:

Thanks for the feed back, always good to hear some details

Nice. I only hope you guys are aware that dual daggers did not recieve their intended buff on heavy hits vs armour. Only sword and dagger 2nd heavy got the nice and much needed armour pen and damage boost.

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Hedge senpai is best senpai.

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