I totally agree. And they do to. We just had a new map and lohner 's emporium here. But, and this is important, abandonning weaves in the state they are now would also prove to be a mistake.
My gut feeling is that, if a map takes 9 months to envelop the new map was in the works prior to the WoM debacle. The focus should be to get lohners absolutely nailed, with great weekly quests and dozens if not over a hundred cosmetics at launch. Weaves should be given the same focus as, say, a deeds rework. Much lower priority than other more glaring problems. Kaboom!
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Well if balance is your most glaring issue (as you seems to indicate with Kaboom), it’s not the same part of the team, so kinda no issue there.
Now there’s indeed a bad history with Vermintide 2 and “rewards” either cosmetics or not, and this is something they’ll have to tackle (Lohner’s is a good step).
But Weaves is something that will need incremental steps, imo, it will ask for more work than Deeds 2.0.
Gross. If they want to fix weaves, okay I get it. They invested in this game mode, there is at least an audience for it, and they want it to be as good as it can be. But I and a lot of other players were already playing “End Game” and that was via the adventure maps and difficulty. So if they want to improve end game they should start there.
The thing I don’t like about calling it end game is the implication (and perhaps this is me misinterpreting the term), that they want me playing weaves as my time sink, after a certain point in my progression. And without significant overhauls (for me probably more than they would be willing to make) I have no intention of weaves being that end game.
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Actually, we played end game with the help of Onslaught / Deathwish mods and twitch. But it was on modded realms. Cataclysm difficulty is actually interesting. Not the same as Onslaught, and I still think some enemies are bullet sponge, but this is their answer to this kind of endgame, and I’m fine with it.
It’s end game as a “way more replayable” than the main game mode. Where variability is the key here. As in your experience will change everytime. Which the current implantation does not succeed. If you look at Diablo-like, it would be Rifts and Great Rifts, if you Look at Deep Rock Galactic it would be Deep Dive (a kind of a weekly challenge). Issue they mostly have with thoses is that they have no rewards which impact the main game, which is something the previous games I have quoted both have (stuff you earn in D3 is actually useable in the whole game, and Deep Dive cores are new upgrades to your existing items in the main game as well).
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Yeah and for me I never really liked the rift system for Diablo which is why I was always going to be a factor in me not particularly liking weaves. But if there is one thing I’ve been hearing a lot of since the last beta, is that any solution to weaves may likely include randomization.
Because this.
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Yep, but despite randomization, there will still a need of some improvement rewards wise. There’s still a bit of work to be done for the weaves to become attractive enough.
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Speaking of randomization; imagine if Weaves had been more like Chalice Dungeons from Bloodborne. While those weren’t well-loved in that game, that would be perfect in Vermintide. Not truly randomly generated, but create a bunch of sections of map that can be combined in various ways, complete with chances of events.
Now that would have been an endgame mode.
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Don’t really know Bloodborne (I mean I know what it is, but never played it) so I have hard time knowing what Chalice Dungeon are.
But a chance of in-game events during various weaves (or even main maps) is an idea I would really like, kinda like machine events in Deep Rock Galactic. That would mean though throwing away the timer (or giving a bonus if the event is completed) and a fully randomized weave (which will take time, if they’re going to follow that road).
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Chalice Dungeons were semi-randomized challenge maps. You start at the top, like entering the dungeon, and then go deeper, unlocking the entries into lower portions.
They weren’t procedurally generated, though. The devs of Bloodborne pre-made sections of map that were then combined in various ways, with something like 2300 combinations (and crazily enough, the Bloodborne community has actually mapped all of them). These could be further modified in the game by adding deed or Weave effects at random to them - then, of course, there would also be the AI director on top of that.
The devs could just re-use existing events as transitions to new levels of the dungeon, or come up with some original ones, and these get put in in various orders. Rewarding players for them could be easy; each dungeon level you complete gives you one bar on the loot table. If you go beyond Emperor’s level, you start on a new chest.
You could also save a Chalice dungeon to share it with friends, so that could be cool in VT, too. Find one with a crazy room where a wall drops down and there are six Ratling Gunners, send that one to your friend and don’t let him know about the trap. 8)
The point, IMO, would be to more fully embrace the randomness that is Vermintide 2, which leads to more replayability. At the same time, the devs could always pick a specific set of dungeon maps, and make those a weekly/monthly/seasonal challenge for leaderboards.
Future expansions and such could even add new room types, thus giving them even more life.
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Huh? Weaves are the least replayable content that’s ever been added to V2. Right up there with Last Stand mode in V1.
(Edit: you do acknowledge that the current implementation of weaves doesn’t succeed at being highly replayable, but you seem to think that minor tweaks would be enough to make it great, and that’s the part I disagree with.)
The wind modifiers are generally neat. But the weaves game mode is an unmitigated disaster and needs a SEVERE overhaul. Trying to force weaves to be a thing separate from the main game is just FS being stubborn.
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(…)
Ok read the edit. No I think there’s a need of minor and major tweaks.
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I suppose I’m struggling to find any minor, or even major “tweaks” that would rescue the Weaves as a game mode for me personally to be attracted to.
I think it’d need a fundamental overhaul and complete rebuilding as part of the main game, with Winds modifiers being a part of the adventure maps for me to even begin to consider them being worthwhile.
You can put as many bells and whistles on it to try and make it attractive, but with the addition of Lohners Emporium and the possibility of varied and interesting weekly quests I think that the “weeklies” are going to become the end-game content that people repeatedly play and enjoy with the Weaves becoming played less and less.
Of course FS could incentivize people to play the weaves by giving them massive shilling payouts upon completion but that just smacks of paying people to play the failed game-mode.
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Admittedly, if they did that I’d be really annoyed, because I still wouldn’t want to play them. I played my fill of them in the pre-WoM beta. Literally haven’t done one since the DLC dropped.
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This
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I understand trying to mitigate and avoid just creating features for every request out there, but for a lot of very specific features, there have been general consensus among a lot of players (at least the players in this forum).
There’s a development company I like to use to show how they have focused on player feedback, and they went from a small indie shop to one of the most popular games out there - Digital Extremes. Just follow their Twitter, Dev Streams, etc. (which I have been doing religiously for 5+ years now).
They always poll, tally, and put out content for their users - it’s why we their playerbase are so passionate about people bashing Warframe. But it didnt happen over night, that company really took the perspective of the user and almost everytime, they do what the users/players request for in everything.
I don’t need to explain just how big they are now - they are literally the biggest FTP action-adventure game out there
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We aren’t building space programs to take us to Mars here - we are talking about video games that give people joy, excitement, etc. Isn’t it, with due consideration, to please the user you are building it for?
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I really am interested, what you would do with weaves to make them real endgame.
Probably wants to go there where the discussion happens.
http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/lets-tackle-weaves/37481/14
Very much agree, I don’t think anyone gives a darn about the leaderboards. As far as I’m concerned the top slots are all filled with people who used either exploits or cheese tactics to get there.
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