They are actually easier to make than new maps for several reasons. Even under the assumption that the Weaves are completely new from the scratch and not using existing maps as basis layout:
Adventure missions need a coherent reason and story for the heroes and enemies being there and also need an Overall story behind them. The Weaves are the result of jumbled Chaos Winds. They follow a larger storyline but a single Weave does not have to “make sense” in itself.
Map layout has to make sense for the Old World as to building placements, nature etc. The Weaves are the result of jumbled Chaos Winds. You can make non-sensical geometry and it would still be okay.
Adventure missions due to Lore reasons are mostly limited to areas within the empire meaning more forests/cities/villages making even new maps Looking overly familiar. The Weaves are the result of jumbled Chaos Winds. New areas can be introduced without caring for the Lore and you can even enter a jungle. This is impossible with normal maps.
Enemy placement is mostly done by hand which makes arrangement and creation of spawn points and pathfinding issues easier. You don’t have to wonder what happens if A.I. director is spawning Beastmen here but you only have suitable spawn points for Skaven. You just dictate that only Skaven spawn. You don’t have to adress each possible scenario of the director anymore because you know the scenario more or less.
And as already mentioned before. Maps are not all-solving tool some people claim. Vermintide 1 went this way and it hardly stayed afloat. The reasons is exactly what described before (and we saw these comments for example in the Stromdorf release) that the different areas in the empire all still look alike. And the Bridge of Shadows can not teleport us anywhere. It has sever limitations. So Lore reason do exclude a lot of areas. In the Weaves however these limitations do not exist. Developers can work far more freely and creative in this environment making the creation of new Weaves easier.
Every time… It’s just such a disaster. We already had a game mode that leveraged mods and preexisting assets, and that one work in synergy with the adventure maps. Now we have even more half baked infrastructure that needs fixing. All-in being a great way of describing the issue because they 1)doubled down on seasons before it was even launched 2)went with presets so they have to constantly get remade 3)made it separate progression and crafting so that now we get to balance two loadout systems even though they contain the same stats and the first one was the one every wanted fixed.
They went a far way out to make something that we sort of already had in an easier form to maintain. Yeah you can spout the 100+unique weaves each season but if that’s the case why am I more excited about the one adventure map than the 100+weaves. And you could have boasted even larger numbers with Deeds (Mods X Map X Winds) the number of theoretical combinations was huge. And they wouldn’t have to manually make new ones each season they can just maintain the system that works with the main game.
In fairness, it looks like they didn’t actually make anything new for season 2. All they did was re-order the winds.
Which still doesn’t make it a good game mode. It just means it’s not as much work as we might be imagining because it’s not as much content as some of us assumed.
Indeed. I’m genuinely excited to play a new adventure map. Weaves are just a filler activity to do if I’m bored.
What I hate is that now Weaves have been made and sold, they need to stick to creating these seasons every few months for the 14 people that actually give enough of a Skaven’s ass to play through them.
Edit: Weaves are also holding every other aspect of the game back. Remember the couple of statements Fat Shark have made in regards to balancing the game, and how they can’t just do it now - because they need to think of the fairness of seasons?
The priorities in the studio are all out of whack. 95% of players really have to steel themselves through bad balance for months because of Weaves? That’s insane. That’s just insane.
And these 14 people are now demanding massive blanket nerfs to anything that is remotely fun because they want leaderboard scores and end of match green circles! It is insane!
This is whats yanking my crank the most. A complete waste of time and effort on weaves for what???
err, Hello? I’ve got enough scrap to rebuild the Keep from the ground up. But NO.
Season 2, weave rework. Just so you know FS, I’m never buying WoM and along with god-knows how many people I couldn’t care less if weave 90 is reworked. Give it up.
Indeed you are. But the point is FS drew the wrong conclusions. You are the sole person trying to defend that position, but the current state of the game and player base do not support those conclusions.
Sorry to be the “sole” person trying to defend that position. Your experience in game industry will prove useful for them to manage their game better.
Weaves can be an interesting mode if they improve them. So yeah, abandonning them won’t be the best idea.
And veterans players are asking the outliers to be in the same ship as the others. Which means buffing the underpowered and nerfing the overpowered. Like… all others games…
It’s not linked to weaves. BW does also destroy Cataclysm, or Fortunes of War, or Legend, or every other difficulty, with a build that is not really interesting to play (because let’s be honest, it’s “press F and maintain block”).
In order to succeed making them the end game they want.
Unfortunately it’s true (and again, it’s not from them at the base, it’s a well known game design principle to prevent not having any direction on the game development).
Look at players wanting to prioritise the keep customisation over an actual end game, because it’s not well made yet.
But it’s seems you’re mistaken yourself. They are right, their game miss “an end game mode”. The fact that they didn’t succeed with weaves at first doesn’t mean they are wrong in their vision. So your mistake is judging weave as they are currently rather of what they could be. And trying to support your vision of… Actually I don’t even know what you want for the game.
People asked for an end game mode, people did ask for new enemies, people did ask for new weapons which is everything WoM added, and people certainly asked even more for versus (that’s like the more asked thing after a new character on steam forums).
What does need fixing in the core game right now ? Balance ? Certainly ? Is that still a bug fest ? Certainly not.
Craft could use an overhaul, Deeds could also use an overhaul. But that’s mostly all. That doesn’t prevent them to actually work on weaves to make them better that they are currently, which would prevent to scrap up the idea of an end game completely.
Don’t see how it’s strawman arguing, you keep bringuing up that no one wanted stuff that indeed people asked. Again, if you have a specific vision for the game, instead of ranting aimlessly, please, provide.
Although the premise that the weaves is going to be an exciting end-game may be sound, by the time they have it working properly many many players who are sticking it out through gritted teeth will just give up. @Froh, surely fatsharks efforts should be diverted away from WoM to try and keep hold of the battered band of brothers still here? It is undeniable WoM crashed and burned and the time needed to get it where it needs to be is a luxury FS haven’t got when the playerbase is bleeding out.