I’ve gone back to basics with the Rashad Mk II axe and it’s been delightful to hack & chop my way through hordes like it was launch (it’s the starter Zealot weapon and I’m nostalgic).
Looking at the attack patterns, everything is Strikedown except for the wonderful horizontal push attack which with Brutal Momentum does not disappoint. However I do find myself running out of stamina quite frequently in hordes, and taking more chip damage than I’m accustomed to.
I’d like to solicit some expert advice from the community as I’m new to fast weapons but enjoying the change from Ogryn. How do you deal with hordes with a weapon lacking horizontal heavies, pretty much!?
To that end here’s a clip of mine from a pretty typical horde moment so that you may (constructively) destroy me
Questions/comments:
I use block attack A LOT for it’s sweep, but I find myself constantly running out of stamina / blocking with no stamina (end of clip) – what’s the recommended horde pattern?
Further on the above I’m running +3 stamina charm
I’m hitting more bodies than heads, probably an Ogryn-ism (lil’ rusty on the lil’uns) – I assume heads are always the target especially for block attack
Chop attacks (not featured) are for carapace and unyielding only? Aside from the flavour chops ofc, sometimes you gotta give it to that poxwalker
You don’t need to spam push attacks on caxe (Rashad PA is not the best, Antax PA is better), Brutal Momentum gives you 4-target cleave on headshots so you can just use light attacks against hordes and sometimes push attacks for crowd control. Heavies are only against carapace (crushers, maulers’ heads) and unyielding (reapers, bulwarks and bosses).
What everyone else has said. I actually enjoy running the axes without BM sometimes so it actually feels unique to play, but for pure performance stick with that.
I think Headtaker can get you a little bit of cleave, but not as much.
yeah both engineless axes are heavy on light attacks. brutal momentum lets the lights hit more than 2 groaners, so the combat axe push attack turns into a dead move (it has like 50% of the first target damage of a light). as shown in the clip where it is notasogud.
and headtaker can boost hitmass by 25%, which with a max roll cleave targets Antax would still not be enough to hit 2 poxwalkers or bruisers. I use tactical axes without brutal momentum sometimes, but the CA is like 100% less useful without it.
I’ve always preferred the Antax V as its light attacks have a diagonal sweep that can hit a few targets esp if you rotate in to the swing.
So I sweep topright-bottom left, dodge left, sweep topleft-bottom right, dodge right. And slot +2 stamina on it for block-pushes. I also have at least one stamina regen curios. Doubles up for the ADS damage skill - DeadShot I think it is - over on the left of the tree.
Slotted BM and I have Shred locked in too.
I don’t always get through a full horde with zero damage, but I don’t really get in to trouble esp if I trigger a special at some point like the shout.
I’m by no means a Rashad expert but I use a ton of versatile, often push-attack heavy weapons. With that in mind here’s a few tips:
A +3 stamina curio really is an amazing investment, I use one on all my classes save oggies (tho some oggie builds too). It’s important to point out for any T5+ player that the stamina is not for blocking, but everything else.
I also use 3x +sprint efficiency & 3x +stamina recovery on basically every build. With them I get max mobility & sprint time, extreme uptime on the passive range-immunity while sprinting, and ofc. pretty much always have extra stamina to spare for melee, push-attacks, blocks etc. even after sprints.
Advanced stamina usage in general depends on your class:
Outside of psykers, the biggest concern with stamina usage & push-attacks is the recovery delay. If you keep using push-attacks or sprinting every 1s, you will never recover it. That 1s recovery is the greatest limiting factor there, so you have to consciously use stamina in bursts with longer breaks between them, rather than steadily and all the time.
So all in all, a weapon relying on PA’s for cleave would benefit from extra stamina, sta recovery & sprint efficiency. You’d want to build in a way where your ranged, nades or ult can compensate and cleave when the Rashad can’t as you’re out of stamina. And with the Rashad itself you’d want to try and use chokepoints & kiting to group them up, and save the PA’s for when you can’t.
But ofc, this is Darktide so there’s variations and exceptions to everything. Remember that as long as you have any stamina at all left after a push, you can do the followup attack no matter its cost. Which is why psykers can basically spam push-attacks back to back forever, vets too with talents. And while zellies can’t, their insane base sta recovery speed means that even a small delay lets them quickly stock up on a massive amount of stamina.
I use the Mk2 combat axe on a few builds for both my zealot and vet.
I generally use the same strategy for dealing with hordes - push-attacks and light spam. I don’t have stamina issues, but I also don’t push-attack nearly as often as you do.
This axe is very strong at oneshotting things on lights with headshots, so I recommend you lean into that. I run decimator (Continuously chaining more than 2 attacks gives +2-5% Power. Stacks 10 times) and headtaker (+3.5-5% Power for 3.5s on Hit. Stacks 5 times.). After a few swings I’m oneshotting most trash on body hits.
Is this optimal? Don’t know, don’t care. It works well, so I use it.
Yes, you always want to be aiming for heads, even with the push attack.
I used to run the antax as it has better attack patterns for BM, but the rashad just kills things faster.
Depends on your playstyle; but you can slot +2 stamina on a weapon perk. If you compare and contrast; you’re exchanging +25% damage against an armour type - e.g. Flak - vs. taking let’s say the equivalent of a “2 stamina” on a curio - i.e. 18% toughness or 15% health.
Horses for courses. No right answer obviously, but it’s worth remembering you can slot on either weapon or curio. Probably more versatile on a curio really as that applies to everything you do rather than just on a melee weapon.
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Point 2: I’m not convinced by sprint efficiency? Sure if you’re stacking stamina it works, but I don’t get why you’d take it over stamina if you had to pick one of the two. I know they’re in different slots, but I think I’d prefer a.n.other ability such as a damage type resistance. Maybe someone can explain why? In VT2 it was always a close run thing between stamina and block efficiency, but in DT it feels like stamina is more of a universal currency being able to be spent on abilities as well as actions.
Oh definitely! There’s so many ways to do absolutely everything in Darktide. For me it’s probably due to maining psykers for so long but I tend to prioritize avoiding damage rather than tanking it. Even back in 2023 when I mostly just stacked 3 toughness curios (until the soundless specialists became thing and switching 1 of them to hp instead), that was my style: I listen, mind my positioning, look before leaping to not get surrounded or peppered by ranged, and just sprint & dodge & slide around while on a constant offense.
I just stumbled on +stamina when I was making knife builds for my psyker. Psykers & knives both have 1 stamina, yet the knife has insane sprint efficiency & speed and great push attacks and the psyker has that super fast recovery delay. A single +3 stamina curio then gives you 2.5x stamina to work with, way more valuable than the diminishing returns on yet another toughness. From there I tested the +stamina recovery & +sprint efficiency perks on top replacing the old +4% CD reduction & +5% toughness.
Those changes completely changed the game. I had mobility the likes of which I’d never had before and a near infinite supply of stamina in practice, I could just sprint everywhere and outmaneuver and reposition in any situation, and I’d almost always have enough stamina for several fast push attacks straight from a sprint no matter what was going on instead of having run out like before. So I started using the same curio set on all my builds, classes & weapons and found out it really wasn’t just the knife (even if the knife does make the best use out of it all).
So going for the curio rather than the weapon (with few rare exceptions) is just the easiest way to go about it. But even if that weren’t the case, personally to me that stamina is such a big deal that it way more than compensates for a bit less toughness. Thanks to the stamina avoiding dmg & applying pressure is so much easier that there’s no need to compromise on dmg on the weapon, so I just use both perks for that instead. But that’s just me, many ways to build after all. c:
Well like I said avoidance means dmg resistance is pretty pointless. I tend to either not take dmg at all or go down like a wet noodle. And when I go down it’s going to be to a ninja trapper or a ninja mauler / crusher overhead. There is no perk to fix those so, that’s that.
That efficiency is really just about the synergy. The less stamina you have to work with the less useful it would be ofc. But tbh even if it’s a choice between efficiency vs. recovery speed, I still usually pick efficiency. Recovery speed doesn’t change the delay after all and is capped at +36%. But efficiency is capped at +45% and means you can sprint for much longer periods - while having your sta above the 50% marker to avoid ranged longer - and have much more stamina remaining after repositioning for the fights. But honestly while I have played some builds that had to make this choice, it’s not often. I almost always just have both two plus the +90% toughness regen speed.
Overall it just means I’m hyper mobile on any build, and have waaaay more stamina to play around with for those push attacks, to cover for recovering dodges etc. It’s just a ton of utility that makes both surviving and doing more dmg way easier than it would be without it all. At least for me & my playstyle.
Huh? Is this a roundabout way of asking how to regen toughness on zealot without vicious offering? Or are you so ogryn-pilled as to not consider lights for horde clear?
I always want to try other Zealot blitzes but not having incoming wind feels like you don’t get to completely ignore anything with guns except gunner concentrations. Good thing throwing knife is the only ranged weapon exclusive he’s gotten since launch (man that is sad).
In all honestly, it’s this one. Light attacks for horde-clear are literally brand-new to me after 300 or so hours
I like heavy weapons, what can I say?
@Elodie thanks for your incredible writeups! You’ve given me a lot to think about. I’ve been playing with stamina regen vs. sprint efficiency on a few loadouts, but not together – I definitely am going to try it. I do value stamina (particularly when I’m out of it) and hold myself to the standard of not getting hit unless things have really hit the fan.
For me it’s probably due to maining psykers for so long but I tend to prioritize avoiding damage rather than tanking it. Even back in 2023 when I mostly just stacked 3 toughness curios (until the soundless specialists became thing and switching 1 of them to hp instead), that was my style: I listen, mind my positioning, look before leaping to not get surrounded or peppered by ranged, and just sprint & dodge & slide around while on a constant offense.
