You’re not wrong as it can happen that you charge out alone, melee some dudes but then shite hits the fan. tons of specials spawning or gunners blocking you from the next room. Heard people are taking heresy difficulty at rather slow speeds. Gotta be methodical, every charge could be your last. When this game releases feature complete in a couple years though, I think they’ll have it figured out.
As an Ogryn Main, the only viable solution is of course to boost the Ogryns Coherency radius by 100%.
Toughness shouldn’t be attached to coherency. It’s awful design for me to run into cover and have 0 shield recharge. My entire team cant be constantly glued to me just for basic fps mechanics to work.
Sharpshooter can mostly ignore this because of their 5%/s feat at least, and feels way better for it.
It’s more annoying if you’re stuck dealing with something and the team runs off for any reason.
E.G. a horde keeps attacking you, you’re dealing with stragglers, turn around and your team is just off in narnia in the distance with a pox hound barreling down on you. Too many teams don’t bother checking to see if the slowest person is keeping up.
I’m willing to listen to many opinions on this topic. But when you said, ‘The idea of coherency makes no sense in a team based game.’ you lost me. The idea of playing as a team in a team based game makes no sense? The idea of staying somewhat together in a team based game makes no sense? What are you trying to say here?
No one is asking you to fight back to back with them. In fact with the size of Ogryns, and the fact that characters can clip into each other, that creates more problems than it solves. But with that in mind… why do you need to be 100 meters ahead of everyone else in your party, or lagging way behind? Why can’t you keep up with everyone else, at least enough to help someone in trouble or be helped yourself?
This game is very much like Left 4 Dead in that fashion. You talk about ‘people who play games like this’. If you played that game (I’m assuming you did) did you tend to run off on your own and get isolated, knowing the game was full of enemies designed specifically to take advantage of you trying to play solo?
Have you tried playing this game with just bots above basic difficulty? Probably reached a point where it was impossible, didn’t it?
This game isn’t meant to play it solo. Anyone who joins a team and then tries to do it is doing it wrong. Every mission I’ve run with people who at least try to stay on the same general level as me and the rest of the team has been reasonably fun and had few deaths. By way of comparison, EVERY mission I’ve run where someone charges off ahead has ended with us barely scraping by due to skipping health and ammo kits trying to keep up, or having said runner die, get mad, then ragequit, leaving us with a bot that couldn’t handle the difficulty.
Again, no one expects everyone to stay tightly clustered. But if you run ahead, jump down a level you can’t get back up from, then die and blame it on game design… you’re right. The game is designed to punish you for trying to play Rambo when the actual show is the A-Team. Explore. Find loot. Fight enemies. But when it comes down to it, remember you’re part of the team you probably joined yourself, and stop pretending like expecting team play in a team based game out of someone who joined a F’N TEAM is somehow a wrong move on the developer’s part.
When we play we try really hard not to do that. Whenever we start a map with bots, we try to keep an eye out for when players spawn in and they’re 500m back and we stop or go back for them as best we can. It would be really nice if we got a notification that a new player was joining and when they joined.
IMO it’s each team members’ responsibility to stay with the team as much as it is for the rest of the team to look out for stragglers. If you see your team moving forward and there’s like a handful of pox walkers left, it shouldn’t be an issue to clear them while advancing towards your team. I’d consider myself pretty team conscious, but I understand there’s only so slow people are gonna wanna go.
How though? If you think about it, all coherency does is give you some bonuses for playing the way you would without it. It’s basically saying, ‘Hey, you decided not to be a burden to your team… here’s a small buff.’ That doesn’t really sound like redundancy, since you’re not losing anything by NOT staying somewhat close, you GAIN by doing so.
Think of it like this. The game at no point FORCES you to stay together. That should be common sense to work with your team. The game does however reward you when you make the extra effort to do so, and help your teammates. How is that redundant? I other words why would it be better if it didn’t do that?
Relying on feats and weapons is not basic functionality.
Coherency only being the class based auras and feats would be fine. The toughness is dumb.
You’d still want to stick together but you wouldnt be completely defenseless if youre forced to split up or choose to flank an enemy. It makes the gameplay more clunky and unfun.
It literally is, that’s what they’re there for. The goal is not to get hit and play together. Just do that and stop complaining about not wanting to move with your team.
How about we reduce max health per second while youre away from your allies too?
Just play together and dont get hit, right?
Why does every shooter have an ebb and flow where you duck into cover to regenerate, I wonder?
Sharp can do this fine for the most part because of their feats. Everyone else relies on someone else being next to them to have basic toughness regeneration in a ranged fight.
It’s awkward and unfun to play. Basic toughness regeneration needs to be a thing. There’s even toughness regen curios which I imagine are completely useless if youre away from your team.
coherency buffs are good, no problems with them.
toughness regeneration is.
i said it redundant because whole goal of that system is to keep players together, there is plenty good reasons for that already. if some players chose to ingnore them, coherency will not stop them.
and there is some good reasons to split of as well. some of those reasons been created by the devs themselfs
I do not like how fast dogs and brutes are triggered when someone leaves coherency. It’s so quick and common I can only assume that it is in place. Without this, I would have no issue with Coherency, though I would prefer a little passive Tough regen while not in coherency, though this could be remedies by improving trinkets and weapons to not be so incredibly stingy with their bonuses.
Honestly a little base toughness regen regardless of coherency would be nice and reasonable. Naturally it should pause for a bit when you get hit so it’s mostly a way you can get a bit of toughness back when hiding behind cover but not quite in team mate butt sniffing range.
Also people forget there are feats that are anti-coherency:
Zealot lv5 feat has an option to regenerate toughness if 3 enemies are within 5m. (not that anyone should pick that)
Veteran lv5 has an option to regenerate toughness if there are no enemies within 8m. (not that anyone should pick that either)
That means veteran and zealot has to keep away from eachother(veterans need to be at least about 8m away from zealot if zealot is engaged in melee; and by nature of melee combat zealot is probably going to be dodge-sliding forward toward other enemies, if coherency wasn’t broken by one single zealot ult already).
These should be swapped around. So Zealot gets a little regen when dealing with ranged units outside of melee(since one can easily regenerate toughness by killing enemies with melee attacks), while veteran gets a little regen in melee against multiple enemies where it might be more important(as veteran shooting at range should mean he is free to position himself near teammates, with coherency already granting him toughness regen).
for me, main problem with no toughness regen is that it can sometimes create unresolvable situations. basically you start hitting a skill ceiling, i didnt feel that in v2 and it was great!
btw that coherency no toughnes regeneration starts to be a reason why i am started rushing forward on lower difficulties. it seamply creates more challenge.
so coherancy system can even work against itself, ironic