Improvements to Coherency

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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First up I will begin by prefacing everything with this.

Coherency is a great idea and does not need overly major sweeping changes, just some tweaks to make it effective and engaging. The idea of coherency rewarding good teamwork and positioning with perks and extra toughness regeneration is good. However there are several issues at the moment that inhibit its effectiveness.

Problem 1: Coherency does not encourage good team positioning.

Different classes want to position themselves differently against the enemy. The Zealot wants to weave and bob around the enemy in melee to dodge attacks and cleave through the horde, the Veteran wants them at a good distance away to give him space to engage enemy ranged. However the tiny radius that coherency has means that to benefit from each other’s coherency aura the Zealot and the Veteran need to stand very close to each other, which means one of them is not performing effectively.

Solution: Make coherency a chain, not an aura. Instead of having the allies within coherency of a character be solely dependent on the number of allies within Xm of them, make it so that coherency can be chained. I.e. if the Zealot is within 10m of the Ogryn, the Ogryn is within 10m of the Psyker, and the Psyker is within 10m of the Veteran, then the Zealot is considered within coherency of the Veteran even if the Zealot and the Veteran are quite far apart. This allows for good players to maintain coherency in a team without compromising their individual classes.

Problem 2: Coherency is unreliable when you need it the most.

You don’t need coherency when trundling down a corridor with half a dozen infected standing around. You need it the most when you are under pressure from a horde with a Mauler or two mixed in threatening to break through to tag your ranged characters and volley gunners in the back chunking away at your frontliners. And during this time maintaining coherency constantly is nigh impossible. There is simply too much to keep track of. On top of that a lot of talents are ‘spike’ benefits. You get them when an event happens. E.g. Zealot’s “Benediction” only has effect when you take Toughness damage. So if the Zealot weaves out of coherency for a second or two just because of their natural dodge pattern and you get shot in the meantime, their talent has no benefit.

In addition, there are abilities that actively encourage you to do things that temporarily break coherency. See Zealot and Ogryn’s charge abilities. Usually these characters are most vulnerable in the few moments after the charge where they are overextended, and thats when they need the coherency benefits the most, but are least likely to have it.

Solution: Make coherency benefits ‘sticky’. I.e. they cling on for a few seconds even after you break coherency, reentering coherency would reset the decay timer. This allows some level of flexibility in combat to bob and weave/charge as needed, as long as you dont stray too far and tag back into coherency to refresh the benefits.

Problem 3: Coherency has minimal visual indicator.

A tiny icon in the bottom left is not something you will pay attention to and be aware of during hectic engagements where coherency is the most important. We need something that is extremely easy to identify that does not cause visual clutter.

Solution: Change nametag color of teammates in coherency. We already use the nametags as ways to orientate ourselves during hectic moments and identify the position of our teammates. By having the name color/outline of the nametag change based on coherency status, it becomes much easier for us to see when we are out of coherency and move to correct it.

In summary, coherency currently suffers from the issue of being overly restrictive, having minimal visual indicator, and being unreliable in situations where you need it the most. The benefits from coherency are fine and interesting, but a few QoL changes will help make coherency more intuitive to use without compromising team effectiveness and promote players to learn good team positioning (rather than picking 4 Zealots/Ogryns and clumping into a ball).

4 Likes
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Completely agree. I was about to make a post like this myself and saw there were a few already.

L4D games, VerminTide, DarkTide are games where you live or die as a team and must learn to work together to succeed. This happens organically. We don’t need to artificially manufacture this by tying an essential stat to it. All it does is limit creativity.

If splitting up does happen to make sense in a particular situation then let players do it. Hordes, Elites and Specials will still punish lone wolves as they always have. Let the players decide to take that risk instead of artificially forcing one playstyle all the time.

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I’d disagree splitting up is a good idea tbh. I think there frankly is no situation where splitting up is beneficial. But balling up is a terrible one as well.

Happy medium in between is where you wanna be. An essential effect being tied to teamwork is a good thing as long as that effect doesnt hinder your team from actually performing, which is what the current coherency does. You would rather break coherency so your veteran doesnt get tagged by a poxwalker, than maintain it for the benefits.

Hence my suggestion, it gives you enough organic flexibility to adapt as needed while working as a team, but will break if you do properly seperate.

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Disagree on that one. IDK about L4D as I’ve never tried it, but Vermintide is a game where all the vanilla content can be and has been solo’d.
You don’t have to work as a team to complete cata, you “just” have to KWTD since all enemy types are predictable in what they do and how the enemy AI works.
Of course the Director AI can throw some tough situations at you, but unless you’re LARP-ing with a meme build, it shouldn’t be the end of the world* that you’re not in close proximity of your team.

*Relative to the setting being the End Times of course.

That saying, I really like the concept of coherency, but the circle should be fairly large to include both ranged and melee combatants. Only if you’re rushing way ahead like a proper handmaiden speedrun should it be broken.

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Hence the chain suggestion. We have a lot of characters that actually don’t mind being in that middling range zone. Psykers and Ogryns for instance don’t quite want to hang as far back as the Veteran, but arent gonna get stuck in as deep as the Zealot.

A large circle is also a solution but its a bit of a boring one since it doesn’t require any real player input, and it doesnt really encourage you to improve your situational awareness/team cohesion.

A chain would introduce an element of positioning skill to the game (especially at higher difficulties where skill and minmaxing become a lot more relevant). Plus it helps encourage players to develop their team awareness as they play, which will also help them to be better players in the long run.

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Coherency should be entirely removed from the game. It appears as a certification of that Fatshark don’t play their own games. There is no reason for Coherency to be in the game, it adds nothing to the game, and it’s purely a detriment to the game.

If we have a discussion about actually PLAYING the game, like I’ve played Tide for over 1,000 hours and some nonsense about people “running off” is irrelevant to if one ACTUALLY PLAYS THE GAME.

The only “running off” that happens is the highest level of teamwork. Running Off kiting a boss/patrol/horde in a sweaty act of high level teamplay as the rest of the team is in bad position with horde/boss/patrol. Then the ultra high level “Running Off”, where the game shines the greatest, the most memorable moments such as there’s 3 of you almost dead and 1 to be rescued further ahead, and you realise YOU’RE NOT GOING TO SURVIVE THIS ROOM, and there is only ONE THING TO DO and that is to do the daring high level coop sweatiest thing of you’re going to rush alone to rescue the 4th.

Introducing a penalty when these things happen is bizarre.

It simply screams that Fatshark don’t play their own games.

A game should take itself seriously and the balance should be based around how the game IS ACTUALLY PLAYED: what’s happening when active dedicated players are playing the game - what does “coherency” contribute to actual game when actual gamers are actually playing the game? “Coherency” is comically out of place, coherency is a weird obnoxious arbitrary thing to the actual game as actually played by actual player - sure, coherency is relevant to someone who played 10 hours and says toxic things on forums about their teammates, but the actual Vermintide and Darktide games as actually played by actual gamers Coherency is insane idea that has no place in it.

Even in the most regular situations “Coherency” is absurd abirtrary STAIN UPON THIS GAME. Say you have an open corridor environment, maybe a big horde+boss coming down it, the melee should be way up front and the ranged players can cover from way back and the melee players retreat back while fighting… introduce a penalty based on some arbitrary distance?? lol what??? just WAT?? Not merely arbitrary but it goes against the grain of tide games.

“Coherency” can only be made sense of if you imagine being someone WHO DOESN’T ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME, and the emotion I’ve experienced over this has been one of cringe rather than frustration; all the times that it has occured ot me while playing Darktide beta “I don’t have coherency buffs right now” is primarily EMBARRASMENT FOR FATRSHARK because in those moments it is so revealing of nothing except that Fatshark simply don’t play their own game and don’t understand their own game. Because everytime I’ve thought “I don’t have coherency buffs” is when the ONE THING I SHOULDN’T DO IS GO TO MY TEAM, because the very reason I don’t have coherency is to save my team from the train of enemies that I’m pulling away from them.

Every time it has occured to me I don’t have coherency I’m in a desperate situation, THE SWEATIEST SITUATIONS, doing the most heroic thing, the most team-work orientated thing, while 3 other teammates are being overwhelmed and 1 is down and I’m pulling stuff away from them, where if I went to my team I WOULD GET THEM KILLED and they’re hanging on by a thread as I’d be bringing the horde/boss/patrol back to them that would sandwich and crush them and get us wiped.

If Fatshark think it’s appropriate to place penalties upon these peak Tide situations then it can only be made sense of by that Fatshark don’t play and don’t understand their own game.

Everytime I’ve thought “I don’t have coherency” it’s funny as it just translates as “Fathsark don’t play their own game”