I assure you, as an elf that has melee/ranged kill ratio of approx 80/20, that all the “melee bugs” that, fair enough, are there and are annoying, are avoidable and are learn-able through sheer amount of hours you pump in into improving your own melee skill. Of course, it will be a better world where all the melee glitches are gone, but saying that “ranged classes are better at everything because they are ranged” is simply ignoring the fact that all of us choose to play these classes differently and on higher difficulties you simply CANNOT avoid being involved in melee heavily if you don’t want to cause frustration to yourself and your party members. I remember one user around here made a long post about players being too passive/too conservative when they play melee and I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment having played hundreds of hours on all difficulties. The question on who dominates your pub, more often than not, comes down to simply individual player skill. But hey, that’s also just my personal opinion.
P.S. - It’s a co-op PVE game, so, again, in my opinion, having threads bashing each other’s playstyles/item choices/classes/careers is not productive for the community as a whole and only contributes to divisiveness among us.
And I play majority Slayer on Legend. In part, my point is that you shouldn’t have to learn to play around these bugs, they just shouldn’t happen at all. That they can and do just means more people will gravitate towards safer tactics and that safer tactics will be more effective (generally speaking). I had a chaos warrior skate backwards diagonally the other day, that was a first.
Fair, but that wasn’t my argument. I specified in my previous post what made these ranged classes so powerful. In short, ranged is the best raw dps in the game, and the best ranged careers have no ammo issues. This could honestly be rephrased as a more general problem about vermintide 2: dps is king (why shields are bad).
Most of my legend wipes are from overextending. Stick together, avoid wipes, generally speaking. Melee being aggressive is a nice idea, but it’s risky for little gain. My smoothest runs are when I babysit a good range or two and make sure they’re safe, especially against armor. I make them a pocket and they use that pocket to kill. Hasn’t seemed particularly slower either, since those ranged builds can kill bosses and hordes quicker than melee.
On the other hand, the runs where I’ve had the most fun have been melee heavy team builds.
I agree that there should be a reasonable balance discussion, on either side, instead of just attacking other players. You won’t get a complaint about that from me.
I agree man, I agree. Solution from our little debate - fix melee bugs and make melee more appealing/less frustrating for all players. Also, stop poking at each other and focus on what we, as a community, should try to improve heading forwards.
P.S. - I’d extend the olive branch to anybody who is willing to look for solutions that fit EVERYBODY and don’t discriminate against particular player playstyles/classes etc. Have a good time in pubs, friends!
Good that the half of the Posts are still Trolls… Sry if i touched your career in any way…not…
If you guys dont Think about the game ans dont have some productive Feedback, you shouldnt write anything down here… FS want Feedback and they got it… no reason to Troll here or in other Threads… if you’ve got another opinion , go and write down your own Feedback… thx.
Your ideas have been discussed countless times since the beginning of the game, there are numerous threads about all what you are writing about and quite frankly, they do show that you understand little about the carreers, weapons and talents you’re writing about and come of yet again as a mindless elitist that wants to mold the game to their liking because “muh legend 2 ez”. Your suggestions would result in less viable playstyles, less difference between heroes and carreers and overall reduction in quality because you are still trapped in that tired-old thinking about the evil ranged meta ruining the game. There is no ranged meta, you just need to get better in melee. Other people have pointed out that most of what is perceived as “the ranged meta” are workarounds for things that sometimes get in the way of a fluid melee experience, but if you get good enough, you will find that melee is strong and absolutely viable. You cannot play melee-focused characters the same as ranged characters, which seems to be your main gripe.
Not everyone disagreeing with you is trolling, people are just fed-up with this kind of bull you posted.
ah… I was wondering who reported my post. Are you really that salty? It wasn’t meant to be an insult, it was a joke. “Here we go again”, Because this thread has been made so many times now, and it keeps getting locked by the admins. That’s all myself and others were talking about.
But since you want to get so upset about it. You’re feedback is nothing more than idiotic whining. Anyone who has played any of the classes you listed for more than a few hours can tell you why you are wrong in every single way. Which they have already been doing in this thread.
This is nothing more than another BEAM STAFF/ELF/RANGE META OP thread. It’s been done numerous times already in the past week. And nearly all the threads have been locked because people like you are so toxic.
And you’ve got no clue what youre talking about. I Never told it Range meta , you guys started it… I Never said ,that melees are useless… I main melee champs and actually i play every char and career and every Game another one…
Some called weapons are obviously too strong and another useless and some named careers too… its Not about getting better and Not about how i’m playing, its about the careers itself and the balance between them…
Yeah…
Maybe you did it subconsciously then, lmao. Brah, all your complaints in the first post can pretty much be summed up to, MUH RANGED META OP. I only read the first part about the Pyro and couldn’t believe how wrong you are. Nearly every single sentence you typed is blatantly incorrect and just your personal ramblings.
Yeah tell me where i’m toxic?
I didnt started Troll posts and i didnt even reported yours.
This isnt even whining , thats feedback… irgendwie i wouldve written something öile “pyro” is xxxxxxx and not more…
If you guys dont see the balance in it, start argue normally als stop Troll ans complaining about things , you dont even know. (Like my chars or skill or playstyle etc.)
Both sides have been toxic to be honest. Don’t have to make it worse.
I suspect that the topic will continue popping up until it’s addressed in some form or another (even if it’s just Fatshark saying this is intended). Ranged is very strong, especially on someone who also knows how to melee. Why is melee boss damage so bad (especially on slayer)?
Can be deducted by you claiming that this CDR-Sienna build with beam staff is somehow op. It’s not, she has much stronger builds that clear things faster and more efficiently. Heck, her elite killing is sub-par on almost any build when compared to dedicated elite killing builds. You either play only champion and below or you simply have not reached a level where you know how to make certain carreers work in the most efficient way.
Only thing I wholeheartedly agree on. Melee killing bosses is undoubtably alot riskier and harder than with ranged dps. There are some very good melee boss killing builds on certain carreers, but I’d like to see getting melee boss killing some love. Then again, there are more than just a handfull of ranged weapons that have absolutely horrible boss dps.
Yeah and what is wrong? You cant even tell it.
Is it wrong that pyro melt bosses? Melt hordes ? Melt CW? Melt Specials? Tell me whats so wrong…
Ans still… toxic? Where?
Tell me this… everyone could come in here and say “youre wrong”… so what is wrong? What is toxic?
Except this thread is nothing more than toxic whining. It’s been done so many times already in just the last week. The only credible point that’s been brought up is that melee does far too little damage on bosses.
Ok, from what I can see, you obviously don’t even understand how wrong you are. Give me a few mins. I’m currently cooking dinner while reading this nonsense. I’m going to reply to every single point of your original post.
Yeah again… you just Talk , but you dont know anything about me or my playstyle.
You got some prejudice and not more. Obviously only your own opinion counts and if somebody got other thoughts , he has no clue or is just a noob… a really good base for a discussion… not
Burning head doesnt really “melt” CW on legend unless they have already taken some damage. Even then ya kill just one of them.
Sometimes ya might get a lucky crit and one shot them…sometimes.
Same with SV…kills maybe one or two of em on legend.
I do agree burning head cd is short. Needs a bit of an increase…maybe start with similiar cd to trueflight volley to start and see how it goes.
Same to you… everything have to be wrong , but Not your own opinion… Good Dinner Sir… I wont argue with guys like you anymore , since you cant think about some issues, just tell me “youre wrong” and call someone like whatever he might be… you seem to be really pro and know everything about the game… youre probably the head of fatshark arent you?
Just to tell it in your prejudice slang…
If you REALLY think what you are writing to be true, than it can very much be concluded you don’t know how to play properly or have never played with really high-level players. In the time you do your beam-staff shenannigans with your oh-so-mighty beamstaff-CDR-build, any elite-killer who knows what they are doing has cleared more elites and specials with their weapons. Her horde clear is also incredibly slow if you just wave your beam-staff around and quite frankly, when I see Sienna players doing that in my games, they get booted because it is annoying and contributes nothing other than stacking hordes.
And this goes pretty much for anything you wrote and again, just use the search function, all what you’ve written has already been discussed ad nauseum and pretty fairly debunked. Like it or not, if you see these things as problems then you are simply not experienced enough with how the game works. You’re right, that’s not a good base for a discussion when we want to talk balancing, as it heavily distorts the representation of how powerful certain carreers are and for what reason. If you cannot keep up with an incredibly inefficient beam-staff Sienna that does her beam-waving thing, it’s you who needs to step up.
You personal opinion. That’s all. Is the fact that a slayer can solo a patrol “broken”? Or is that working as intended?
So much wrong with this statement I’m not sure what to make of it. Beamstaff has the weakest damage output of any of the Pyros staffs. Not to mention, if you take the lvl 25 talent to remove all cooldown on ult, you’ve lost that 30% reduction talent, which is what I would assume you’re going for? Otherwise, you would do the crits reduce ult cooldown by 2 second trait and then just spam ults? Still, the 30% reduction would allow you far more ults, and you can simply just vent your access heat.
Almost every special in the game lets you kill CW’s and specials with ease. That’s the point of the ultimate abilities, correct me if I’m wrong? But what exactly are you comparing this too to say it’s over powered or broken? A slayer can 1 shot stormvermin with his heavy attack, a elf can 1 shot most heavies with her daggers, a BH can 1 shot nearly everything with his xbow and ult. If you going to say its OP, at least give us something to compare it too.
Other staffs actually don’t need to rely on the ult because they put out far more damage than it. That’s the whole point of the beamstaff, shotgun blast everything up close and spend the rest of the time trying to get your ult back. You can easily out-damage the Beamstaff CDR build with nearly every other staff just playing normally.
It only 1 shots the CW if you hit it directly from the front and it crits. Meanwhile the shade can 1 shot a CW with a simple left click from her ult, I’m surprised she didn’t make your list of OP characters. Also, it doesn’t deal tons of damage, a single shot from the BH crossbow can do 5-9k more damage. The WS ult does roughly the same damage but is split into 3 shots.
Her mace deals around 1k damage with her basic left hand click. 2.2k damage with a charged attack, the same as her daggers. It’s really not that bad, obviously she’ll have higher damage on classes like unchained. Also, she’ll apply burning damage which will tick away at their HP as well.
This is what leads me to believe you have no idea what you’re talking about. WS ult deals more damage than Siennas. Around 1,600 more damage on an average hit.
Glaive has already been seriously nerfed hard. This has been discussion a lot so I won’t go into it. The daggers allow her to get her ult back faster and deal more single target damage. Allowing her to 1 shot stormvermin and so on. But you’re trading in horde clearing for this build. You can compensate with a hagbane to make up for it. If you think that’s broken or OP, then I guess we just fundamentally disagree.
No.
Because people like yourself kept asking for nerfs until they dropped her HP recovery down to 50%. So yea, ofc the other two traits and useless now. 50% HP is not even enough to survive a hit from certain mobs on Legend. Obviously ammo is the only trait people are going to take.
People will still take the 30% reduced cooldown on ult because with scrounger on your bow, you regen arrows with your ult. It’s a no brainier. Removing arrows from regen on the lvl 15 trait won’t really change much. It’s just another nerf that isn’t needed.
The heavy attack on the glaive leaves you wide open to be counter attacked. It’s already very risky to use it if you have more than one heavy attacking you. You’re actually better off doing simple left clicks to stagger the stormvermin if their’s a group of them.
If you remove the damage from the daggers, you’re taking away the only thing they are good at.
I’m actually surprised you haven’t mention the Sword and Dagger? Which again leads me to believe you have very little time on these classes or have no idea what you’re talking about. S&D get the best of both worlds when it comes to daggers and glaive. Wide cleaves and crowd control with faster attack than the glaive and it’s second heavy attack works exactly the same at the stab on the dual daggers.
I don’t really feel like going on, my fingers are getting tired. But again, it seems like you have very limited knowledge of the classes and how they play. It seems more like you’ve seen some WS or Pyro/BH do well in your game and you’re here to cry.