Class Balance

Like i already told ages ago, some range classes are still too “easy”/“broken”.

Pyromancer:

Just pick a beamstaff and melt down everything without any heat issues or skill. Just use your Ultimate between it, if you got to much heat.
Even this Ultimate can melt down Chaos Warrior and Specials easily with autoaim. Both together let every boss fear, so she really needs to be fixed.
It won´t work, if you only fix the beamstaff. It´s strong af, but it would work with other staff´s too.

It would be much better, if the ultimate wouldn´t kill CW asap, have a higher cooldown and won´t CC bosses with tons of dmg.

If you would change something like this, Sienna´s melee weapons could need some higher damage to armored enemies. Battlewizard is balanced, but lags hard VS armor/shield. Chaos Warriors are pain. Same goes for Unchained, but with the tankyness, she is strong , really strong. Just Pyromancer can challenge everything easily without even move out of a savezone.

So just please

-fix the Pyro Ult hardly

-nerf the easy tons of damage autoaim beamstaff in it´s damage, give it more heat or/and minimize the hitbox and range, since it´s no projectile and to easy to land.

-make Sienna´s melee weapons useful against CW. (but only if you nerf pyro first, otherwise she could solo everything)

Waystalker:

The Waveclear is strong as Sienna ones, that´s ok… even her ult isn´t as strong as Sienna´s, but glaive and dagger are and she got nearly “endless” ammunition.
I can kill everything from a save distance, got a good low cooldown ultimate for specials and the only “bad ones” are still CW. But they´re no problem with glaive or dagger, even a sword works. I won´t even run out of ammunition with the awesome lvl 15 trait. I mean… why should anyone pick another trait?

-So first of all i would change the ammunition on passiv trait (Vaul´s Quiver). It even makes Ironfeather Glights and Kurbous Blessing useless. Just give her defence on passiv or attacking enemies, like slayer got. a.E.

-The heavy attack damage from dagger and glaive should be lowered. Sword is fine actually, but double-sword is quite useless and need a buff. These weapon nerfs would balance the Shade a lil bit too, since he can Oneshot everything with a low cooldown Ultimate too. Handmaiden is fine and feels balanced.

Bountyhunter

Just say… Melee, Range, Melee, Range, Melee, Range… and with 1 trait, you won´t even run out of Ammunition… better, you don´t need some!
That´s how my Bountyhunter works and i can melt everything with crits and it hurts hard. The traits like “faster rezz”, “power ooA” and “Pious Fervour” are such useless, because the whole critical-passives without losing ammunition are just broken.

  • Same as Waystalker here, but harder. He shouldn´t be able to get free shots, after 1 melee kill or an amount of time. Give them a stacking defense buff or something. Maybe a trait like " if your grant-crit-passiv is on cooldown, your defense is higher."

  • The Passiv shouldn´t reset on melee kills instantly. Maybe reset 1 second per kill.

-The Weaponbalance at all is ok, just the 2-hand sword could need some love.

The End for range class issues.

So at all… Huntsman and Ranger are range classes too, but their quite balanced right now and need such skill to survive / get ammunition back.

The 3 names careers are just to “easy” to play and can do to much in a melee focused game. That´s why i would prefer, that the ranged classes at all get a lil bit revised. I got a lot of games, those classes just soloing easy hordes from a save distance and melt down bosses into seconds.

Even with the 0 ammunition lag, the “Hunter-passiv” on range-weapons is the only viable one. This needs to be fixed.

EDIT:

Lower their range advantage and make them not that risky in melee would make the classes better, than let them killing all at once, while 10 other careers can go sleep.

EDIT_END

At last, no range class issue:

I still think, that the Ironbreaker Gromril Armor passiv is too strong. It gives the player, like the 0 ammunition/outrange/autoaim classes above, the capability to play higher difficulties without any higher skill. Just say “It forgives to much.”

It should be an overall 20% dmg. reduction or just a 50% dmg reduction on the next hit with 20s cooldown. Not 0 damage!

If i´ve got more time and much more time to think about some balance issues, i´ll give you more feedback.

Who in the blue blazes, still uses glaive?

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Beam staff isn’t that great… not compared to the other staves.

If we’re talking Pyro, then really the only thing that needs adjusting is the ULT. Burning Head wipes out half a field of enemies or one shots CWs… and its CD is only around like 40 seconds.

Its one of the most powerful Ults in the game yet… has the shortest CD of all of them. Something needs to give on that.

This is an Ult that needs to be around 3 minutes. Its the only real insta kill Ult in there. Outside maybe Waystalker… but even Waystalkers is like 75 seconds which is still pretty short.

Barrage > Hunter for hagbane, swiftbow, and repeaters in terms of monster killing.
Scrounger can restore your ammo to full for lucky crit into horde so you can snipe specials further. For blunderbuss and grudge it’s just free ammo on RMB hitting into some clan rats.

To all said above. Ranged meta is an answer to a ea game, where enemy behavior is inconsistent and sometimes plain stupid. Sliding CW’s, shieldvermins blocking from any angle, stormvermins perfroming running attack being 1 feet from you, running attacks from all types of enemies just as they climbed up or down, getting hit by infinite amount of fnatics facing horde in narrow place.

Melee focused game, but when you all out of ammo, and no mage in party, first long range special will put a cake on your head. And in norsca even if you have ammo blight stormer will screw you up cause casting through wall/fence/tent/rock.

Ye, about glaive, playing champion, mate? Havent seen it much in legend.
About daggers. Compare them to dual axes. almost same dmg on armored head, daggers have a bit more on unarmored head and have bigger crit multiplier. Well, they dont have APR on lights tho and their push stab is joke compared. Should you ask to nerf dual axes too?

Beam stuff i feel like should have 0 stagger power. So you cant stagger horde endlessly cause you beam it for 1.5 damage. But that not quite the thing that makes this weapon good. This weapon in total have RMB for close combat, lmb for infinite stagger, lmb+rmb combo for specials. It melt bosses, it can everything. GIve it some power vs armor via good known “Resourceful combatant” b*****t and it can do literally everything. What other staffs can? One-two of those at max.

Sword is totally not fine. It is one handed weapon, but feels just as slow as 2h hammer or smth. It either should have 4 stamina shields or increased attack speed and no slowdown on heavies.
Dual swords it mostly crap in pug.

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I think that The balancing process is not really easy to do in a game full of bugs and glitch :joy:

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Compared to the other classes, slayer gimmli got no range, so the dual axes should be fine. Dagger + bow with endless ammunition? gg…
I saw enough ppl still play with glaive and it´s still really strong. Yeah maybe the sword need a lil buff, but actually it feels fine in every situation. Not everyone is a Meta-Player.

About the traits… i do know that the you can get ammunition back there too, but actually those champions don´t need ammunition or just gain it back for free. Only BH maybe needs to go melee to procc his passiv permanentely. Waystalker and Pyro can sit in a save distance and laugh about the tanks fighting around and hit friendly fire or just staying around, because range will clear it all for free.
There should be a decision between “go full special/SV/horde killing” or “save ammo for instant boss melting” and not all for free.
I played only 2 games with Pyro yet.(Yes i don´t like the class till begin.) Both on legend, because of the challenge. So… we won both easily and i didn´t even use beamstaff. Waveclear? check… instakill on others? check… Bossdamage? check…
The same goes for BH and WS, as long as they don´t even need to do something for their ammunition like Headshotkruber or even care about it. Without their endless ammo, i grant a lot of more wipes to specials like you said. There is no need to care about it actually and that´s bs.

Oh, look, another player who has never used any of Sienna’s other staffs and thinks that Pyro’s strengths are with beamstaff and her active. Beamstaff is a good weapon, but it certainly isn’t her strongest staff. Sienna’s ranged weapons are, by and large, pretty well balanced. Considering the amount of CW and other elites on Legend, being able to take the odd one out even with cooldown reduction seems pretty meh when compared to the constant elite-killing power of some other carreers.

7 Likes

I totally disagree… and Im not sayin who I am disagreein with!

Shoot, did I hit the reply button?

grabs popcorn

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As a slayer I don’t mind to be ambushed. Cause I have other weapon to deal with slaves so I can stay In a corner and wreck. Being ambushed with daggers is a pain in the arse.

Man. Glaive isn’t strong at all. It’s slow, It haven’t increased reach like spear and halberd, dodge count of 1 and dodge range is one. It’s just mediocre at all. Good swings for hordes, good dmg for elites, high ARP. But in terms of each oh those gameplay scenarios I would rather use other weapon.

The curse of the game is super armor and difference in ARP on weapons. Take a spear/2h sword and kill one CW with it? Thx no. Take a wiz mace, 1h hammer, elven 1h. Why not? The ultimate difference in weapons is how you can use them fighting lords. Glaive Vs Brodvarr? You will never catch him with heavy. If he turns on you mid yours swing you are doomed. Same with rat warlord.

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Of you would read carefully , you would know , that i dont use beamstaff, because it is ridiculous.

I did, I was just being a little polemic. I could also have written that I simply disagree with you, but where’s the fun in that?

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The most enemies are dead by a bow , before theyll reach you. Daggers are a Lil bit risky Yeah, but if you permadodge , it works fine in waveclear without getting any hit.

I do know that the AP is the problem at all, but the gap between Kerillians weapons is too strong.

Why, just why, WHY are we still discussing this is beyond me. Like, every other day I come here to check constructive feedback and criticism regarding ACTUALLY broken/urgent aspects of the game just to find that we are STILL talking about ranged meta and such. Like wow, it’s mind-blowing to me.

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could… could the glaive possibly use some skill to use? GASP

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Where did you get that dodge count from? The stat sheet has it at 3.

The curse of the game is super armor and difference in ARP on weapons. Take a spear/2h sword and kill one CW with it? Thx no.

Neither of those performs any worse vs super armor than it does to normal armor though (the only affected melee weapons are rapier and falchion).

Forgetting bounty hunter here?

Pyros ult actually doesn’t oneshot CW, even on headshots (it deals enough damage though that they are pretty much one-shots afterward). At least without power stacking, although i don’t remember how much you needed and if it was even possible without more exotic stuff. On bodyshots, the damage is actually kinda pitiful. It’s big weakness is being stopped dead when hitting armor (and similar) though, it’d be terrible if it had a 3m cooldown.

The mace wrecks armor and the dagger is fairly decent at it.

Huntsman and Ranger are range classes too, but their quite balanced right now and need such skill to survive / get ammunition back.

Huntsman i understand, but ranger? You don’t need skill, you just need specials to die.

It should be an overall 20% dmg. reduction or just a 50% dmg reduction on the next hit with 20s cooldown. Not 0 damage!

Ironbreaker already has a passive 30% damage reduction (on top of having 150hp).

Oh, please do! I am sure your suggestions will be considered by FS and lead to a truly improved game experience!

Of course, this means it is OBJECTIVELY true!

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Could we please, PLEASE talk about how OP elf movement with spear strong attack is?
No one can compare at this point.
Or how Shade is underpowered and there is no reason to use her on higher difficulties?

Oh wait, wrong version of the game.
But wait, since when is Glaive supposed to be useless?

I personally prefer the glaive on the WS and HM. But I’ve seen a lot of other elves run daggers. The headshot heavy attacks with them tend to 1 shot most mobs in the game. And they attack fast enough to stagger lock nearly everything. Plus, they have a higher crit rate than other weapons. So you get your special back a lot faster, normal crits = higher reduced ult cooldown. And then with the reduced ult cooldown on crit trait you get your ult even faster, it makes them a very solid choice. You trade out horde control for ult cooldown and higher damage output on single targets. But, to be fair, with the hagbane, you don’t really need CC on your melee.

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It’s not useless, it’s just okay/good. SnD/Dual Daggers are easily as good if not better than Glaive at this point. It’s like people haven’t even tried those weapons on Keri.

When ranged is more effective against hordes, bosses, elites, and specials, while also having near-infinite ammo (Pyro/BH/WS/IB) and the ability to generally avoid melee bugs, these threads are what you get. Plus with the main ranged classes your ults are universally good against the more dangerous targets and they have low cooldowns. On top of that you also have potential bugs (unconfirmed) like the beam staff having first tick on-hit procs.

But with melee you are focused to deal with the melee bugs (include bosses spinning too quickly, maulers/chaos warriors skating, chaos hordes stacking, running attacks started in close range, etc.) while also dealing with anti-melee mechanics (chaos spawn grab, unblockable damage, pools of fire, etc.). Plus with the melee careers you generally either have poor ults (merc, WHC, handmaiden, battlewizard?) or ones focused primarly on CC/buffs (FK, IB, Zealot). Unless you run shade and are the one anti-boss melee kit in the game, but only because of the ult.

At the end of the day, everyone is just evaluating balance based on their own vision of the game. Fatshark hasn’t been very vocal on their desired game balance (which is fair, fans are vicious), so we’re all just arguing with different goal posts and trying to guess their intent.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu