The way I would buff fire nades would be the following:
Honestly? I’d make that a 100%
Smartest idea ever I have seen…
As a keystone, it could be acceptable.
(but i do not think it can happen)
or you could put a longer than 1 min cd on it?
all cd’s and capacities wont be equal they would be the balance, so for your big bomb you could make it bigger set its cap to one cd to never and be sure they could only use it once a game.
but then happy rock can have a higher cap and a quick CD its lack of power allowing it to be used more frequently.
again im not talking about making the all spammable im talking about making the all useable an amount of times that reflects their impact.
all im suggesting is make the number of charges predictable , controllable.
yes.. 45 minutes is perfect (let’s take 15 minutes security)
well i suggested just not having a cooldown for that blitz, now you know its a one per game use you dont have to worry about them finding nade boxes and your free to let it actually be as strong as you want. as it is they have to balance about it being used 1 or maybe 2 3 or more times.
fixed regen times even if they are set to infinite all give control to blitz’s use which i think clearly makes it easier to balance them.
so to loop back to the start
how does having a random amount of blitz’s improve the ability to balance them?
You can’t balance around infinity in a game where there limitations. Even in havoc you can exhaust the map of enemy spawns over and over again. You give players infinite nades that delete hordes, there are never hordes to fight. You give players infinite ammo to deal with specials, there are no specials to fight. You give the player infinite amount of elite onetaps, there are no elites to fight. The only way havoc can remain difficult is if it throws so many numbers at you of everything with high enough value that it will overwhelm players before they’re able to delete everything.
So the obvious thing about balancing blitz with pickups is that you’re at the very least required to progress through the map and find them in the first place, and they can be anywhere. This takes time out of your run, may force you to fight more enemies, and may even split your team in order to find as much as possible as soon as possible, which opens up more risk than what there is currently, which is deathballing the map through sheer brute force and winning far more often than you’ll ever lose.
Not saying it doesn’t. Maybe the arbitrator needs nerfs overall, or it’s blitzes are too strong/weak in relation to itself and other classes. I can see points for either. The shock mines are pretty good, despite the recent nerf. I wasn’t overly impressed with the other two blitzes on Arbites. I use the dog just because it regens.
It’s a good point on grenade pickups being exclusive to the person picking them up. As to when Ogyrn would pick them up… maybe you don’t have a hive scum in your party. Or they haven’t used their grenades yet. Or they’re dead. Or they (the scum) dropped down/are far away and they’re (the grenades) right next to you.
I feel like that’s a problem even without the hive scum isn’t it though? Depending on team make up if you’re playing havoc 40 certain characters and their blitzes would be prioritized over others? I just think the issue of grenade resources and priority existed before the hive scum.
throwing knives be like o-0!
Chorus still reigns supreme 
Just to clarify my stance on blitz balance in general after reading some replies:
Powercreep is the biggest issue in the game right now. Buffing enemy HP and spawns was the worst choice for balancing powercreep since it threw off balance for neglected weapons/blitzes even further and basically negated previous balance patches. I’m not asking for Zealot to get Krak nades, I just want all Zealot blitzes to feel as fun and impactful as throwing knives. In all honesty, grenade regen in general needs to be changed to be conditional like ability CDR (short cooldown/partial recharge for a short duration) for how strong Veteran and Arbitrator blitzes are, but that’s a separate discussion. Fatshark doesn’t seem keen on reversing powercreep anytime soon.
Zealot nades should either do more or get a bigger count in some form. I’ve seen the argument that blitzes shouldn’t be compared in a vacuum which is valid. Unfortunately the only comparisons to make are Hive Scum and Ogryn since Vet and Arbitrator have regen which throws off any balance discussion completely. Ogryn for example is just as impactful in their role as a control frontliner as Zealot is as a dps frontliner and is strong enough that if Ogryn didn’t have any blitzes they could still get through any difficulty without an issue. Ogryn even does great with rock, which has great utility and is both fun/unique just like throwing knives. Ogryn doesn’t “need” the frag bomb or box to do its job, but it’s awesome to have those blitzes as an option for extreme situations where it makes sense to use a very limited resource to turn the tide of a situation (frag bomb still does great against dense rager packs/stunning armor even in Havoc). In exchange for choosing more impactful blitzes, Ogryn loses the utility of quickly throwing a rock and loses blitz regen which feels fair and fun.
Zealot, in comparison to Ogryn also has a great quick throw blitz option. However it rarely feels like it is worth giving up the utility of throwing knives for the other blitzes which shouldn’t be the case. Throwing a stun nade or immolation grenade rarely feels impactful, and with only 3 nades it’s just not a fun part of Zealot’s kit. You only get to throw a nade a couple times a game, and each time it lands like a wet noodle.
To reiterate, I don’t think outright massive damage is the answer to what Zealot blitzes should be. The priority should always be fun/enjoyment of use over number/damage comparisons. But if each grenade is a limited resource then throwing a grenade should feel impactful and unique in some way, just like Ogryn grenades. Zealot grenades just aren’t fun to use right now. Increasing the count, some limited regen, or just adding something to Zealot nades would add a lot to Zealot’s flavor as a class. I’ve seen a couple ideas for changes similar to my own ideas, but ultimately I think picking your blitz on any class should feel like a struggle between different fun experiences/utility tradeoffs, not a pick between one fun/great option and two boring/borderline wasteful options.
Just speaking from personal experience, I use throwing knives on zealot when I am using the boltgun mainly for monster DPS. If I run something like eviscerator I actually just the handgun and have stun storm grenades when I need to revive someone. Sometimes I don’t throw grenades the entire match because moments I feel I need them didn’t come up. Which is fine, but I am generally pretty conservative in games where they feel like a limited resource.
The immolation grenades I never felt like those things were worth it.
Maybe change the immolation grenades to a melta charge? Sticks like a krak but when it pops it also lays down a burning area. The increased power of having both krak and immolation together would be offset by a lack of talent-based regen.
I don’t use them personally, so this is mostly guesswork based on context and other peoples’ posts, but I have a strong feeling immolation is being kept afloat by uncanny abuse. Assuming that is rightfully patched out, I’d love immolation to be given a really high unyielding mod so it could at least have a boss damage support niche (being able to very quickly wipe a pack of bulwarks wouldn’t be bad either).
Yeah, I’ve been playing Zealot and I haven’t played Zealot since the early release. The Zealot is a machine capable of dealing large amounts of damage, but surprisingly weak against groups of ranged enemies compared to Veteran and Ogryn; and Psker has a shield ability and weapons that can block ranged attacks. Zealot’s nade’s are weak, but since the scoreboard broke, I can’t see my total damage, but I think Zealot is typically one of the highest damage dealers right under Psyker.
If you’re going to buff Zealot’s nades, then you probably want to nerf something else, because Zealot is a killing machine. All keystones are great, all abilities are great. Only issue I’ve run into is ranged enemies since I’m using a garbage ranged weapon till I finish the last few masteries having not played Zealot since well before the rework of the crafting system.
Something that should have been patched a long time ago
Weapon blessings should have no impact on blitzes.
Weapon blessings should have an impact, just not to the extent that Uncanny does. Lethal Proximity is a good example. Blessings like that are fun and completely fine, because they change how a abilty behaves rather than scaling its power.
I could not disagree more.
I don’t see why your grenade should get the blessing of your melee weapon if you had it, or the ranged weapon when you switch to it.
Adding talents to give better blitz is absolutely fine (psyker has such good talents) but seeing blessing crafted on a weapon giving a bonus to blitz is absolutely wrong.
And the worst is that switching your weapon change the blessing applied to the grenade… a pure non sense
You do not even have to switch weapons for Lethal Proximity.
Besides that, almost every other game has mechanics like this. It is basically a standard in games that use similar systems to Darktide. The key difference is that those mechanics are properly balanced.
Nades are a difficult thing. Maybe adding some kind of slowing to the immolation nade would make it feel more impactful? Players also get slowed down when standing in the fire. Not everything has to be about damage.