Except that is kinda what 1/3rd of the Veteran Tree wants you to do. I do fully agree that this playstyle isn’t born out in Damnation anymore, and you have to be mobile and can’t just stand there, but Exectioner’s Stance still works like a worse off Volley Fire of Old, without the Toughness restore you can’t even use it, as you could in the past, to whip it out mid fight to delete some specials at the far end of the Horde, because you are likely not having the toughness to spare to do so.
And Marksman Focus Keystone quite literally doesn’t want you to move. Even with the 1 second grace period that seems largely designed just to take a step when you misjudged an angle or to get into a slightly better position. Not so much as a means of preserving stacks between the Melee you are forced to do.
With enemies spawning all around you, the gameplay simply doesn’t allow for the static gameplay of old anymore, yet the impression i am getting from 1/3 of the Veteran tree is that this is exactly what the Developer want us to do.
Hence, my request for the Devs to actually show us how they envision it being used. Or at least tell us that its not designed for Damnation. Which is fine, at least then we know we are all poor-man’s Zealots in melee with a revolver or other fast drawing guns.
Yeah, Im not a fan of that keystone. Too many conflicting mechanics, dont move too much, or you lose stacks. Also weapons which build up those stacks the quickest (as you get them only on KILL not HIT), dont really need them also: Hellbores or lets say HH MK VII as you one shot many enemy classes anyway.
As i said, the issue is not that they removed the ability, the issue is that toughness of vet got significantly nerfed down, you are arguing with me something we already both agreed that it was broken.
you said your build is staying close to action, yet your build is medium range-long range, and with the 20% long range damage passive ability.
I’ve found (thru playing, recording and rewatching footage) that a significant number of engagements, and most (if not all) of the event sections, in Auric Dam allow vets to post up and take full advantage of Marksman’s Focus.
I do take Infilitrate, Low Profile and Camouflage, but I still think that’s a pretty reasonable cost to get a massive ranged damage buff suitable for clearing full rooms of threats at range while largely ignoring 50% of the game’s hybrid combat formula.
And that would be fine if Marksman Focus was under the Infiltrate side on the right, but it isn’t. It is on the left under the Executioner’s Focus. Thus increasing the tax you have to pay if you want to pair Infiltrate with Marksman Focus to have the time to build it.
The only reason you pair them like that is to get the Camouflage back to allow you the static gameplay. While at the same time the rest of the nodes around Infiltrate seem to suggest a Backstab Melee build and why its paired with the whole “Swap weapons” keystone.
Ultimately what allows you to make the Marksman Focus work is the ability to break aggro with Infiltrate and then rely on Camouflage to reduce your aggro gain, to give you the 10 or so seconds you need to make what Executioner’s Stance should be, work. Infiltrate also gives you enough “leeway” or “breathing room” to pull whatever weapon you want. You can take all the time to swamp to the Helbore, get your position, take your time for the first shot and then do your Marksman thing.
This is what Exectioner’s Stance should do. With you keeping it going as you keep deleting enemies. But that isn’t how it works.
Executioner’s Stance doesn’t even give you Thoughness back. It does not give you the breathing space to pull out a Helbore either. Ultimately it doesn’t go together with the Marksman Playstyle, despite everything on the left side of the tree suggesting that is how you are meant to play.
Walk to a point, shoot things, while staying static and keep your running tally going and as you land weakspot hit after weakspot hit. But that isn’t how Damnation works.
And that isn’t to say that i can’t take a Headhunter MK VII and use executioner’s stance and Marksman Focus, as the Headhunter draws quickly enough and hits hard enough… to do the whole Marksman Stuff while you keep dodging the melee swarm. I’ve done this. But while doing this i also acknowledge that the tree doesn’t want me to use a slug weapon. The lasgun doesn’t need “on crit don’t use ammo” and the Slug, which does need this, doesn’t get the “on crit don’t use ammo”.
But i don’t think that is how you are meant to use this. And i really want the Developer to tell us how you are meant to use it. Not how i can frankenstein a tree where i go left to right to left. In the same fashion where i don’t think i am meant to frankenstein a discount Zealot with Voice of Command and the right side of the tree where i end up playing mostly Melee.
As best as i can tell, Veteran still is inherently punished for being in melee. At least assuming the values on gamelantern are up to date. Veteran’s still get full damage on Dodging. And i am very curious if we also still have double damage for being hit in the back. But that isn’t what this thread is about.
I really want the Developer to walk us / me through how the Veteran is meant to work these days. Not me cobbling some Frankenstein’s Monster together, trying to somehow get the Veteran playstyle of a Marksman back… or making a discount Zealot of a Melee Veteran, while the Stats of the Veteran actively discourage you from being in melee.
Edit: I mixed up left and right and carried it through the post (sorry about the confusion, its late for me and i need sleep)
Obligatory “vet tree needs a couple more points of flexibility” caveat, but aside from that…it is very possible to run from the right to the left side of the tree to make a build and that seems like a good thing to me.
I could see ExStance needing some buffs (makes me feel too squishy for comfort), but ultimately I think separating the hidey utility ability from the maximum damage ability is the right way to go. Seems more interesting to me.
I considered that, but the whole thing seems to hung on getting your ability cooldown back, which is situational, even with how broken atm Tactical Awarness is. Did you take the second ability use - Overwatch or you just kept it at one use?
It isn’t about the possibility of Frankensteining a Monster in that tree.
But i do not want to get into that here, because this thread is not meant to be about that. This thread is not meant to discuss perceived problems with the tree. This thread is meant to get the Developer to tell us their intentions for the Tree. For how the playstyles go together when you do a pure build. Which means stick to a lane and pick all abilities in that lane.
Learning the intended playstyles does allow us to actually give feedback if its working as intended. From the impression i am getting… it does not, but since it is highly likely they know something i don’t… i do hope they will show us how they are meant to work.
Yes this is your thread so I’ll leave you to it, and I hope you get your answers, but my sense is that the entire point of the trees is to Frankenstein them. The 3 lanes are thematically, not necessarily functionally, related.
I feel the same way about right tree Psyker with Disrupt Destiny at the bottom.
Assail has mad synergy with Disrupt Destiny and Gun Psyker (which wants to use Scryer’s gaze). It’s a pretty coherent setup, all single lane + splash setups are.
Vet on the other hand… Well, it’s quite a f*up, and you can flex less due to the keystones being far down.
Vet is still good but it’s not as fun to play anymore compared to before skill tree rework. The fact that FS doesn’t have employees running Auric is not a good look (idk but according to what you all said). And they don’t even hire Quality Assurance anymore.
Vet used to be my most played class but not anymore. It’s boring. Just bring back the old vet, I need my auto reload back!
The fact that so many nodes were bugged and how some questionable designs remained in the game AFTER a whole year should have been telltale enough to show that FS in fact does not play their own game enough - if at all.