Can we get a Dev Walkthrough Video for Veteran on Damnation?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Hence my request for the Devs to sit down and explain how it’s meant to work. We can’t even tell if it’s working as intended, at best we can find use for it, which then might lead to more outcry down the line when it gets fixed and everyone suddenly can’t use it in the unintended way anymore.

As i said, the way i understand how they are meant to be used clashes with how i experience the game and thus i made this thread in the hopes the Devs explain it to us. Not just us trying to figure out how to use it and then have near ideological disagreement about how you should use it.

There are actually people that know exactly how they want us to use it. Can’t be so hard to take a bit of time and tell/show us.

Which is exactly why i want the Devs to explain it. Same with the Marksman Focus. I want them to talk us through how they imagine it used and i think a dev video showing it used on their youtube channel would serve as easy repository to point to.

That doesn’t work in my experience. You can’t rely on a babysitter in HI Damnation.

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42

This is 100% fine for what I would assume would be the majority of the jobs. However game designers and combat testers need to have the meta on lockdown and need to be playing their stuff. It can’t just be conceived on a theoretical level and assume it will work out.

I really don’t like Zealot crit builds because it’s just so BORING. Its feels almost the same as the launch crit build except you can take throwing knives or I guess go invisible instead of charging. Blazing Piety has no meaningful interaction besides just lol here are more crit rates for playing the game. Every unique buff for it is just get a critical hit, which for crit builds is nothing more involved than just stacking crit buffs and spam swinging.

I am not trying to be toxic or anything, and I agree I run support builds and love it, but the “score” modifiers for the scoreboard mod are so incredibly useless for judging metrics that I’m confused for why they exist in the first place. Again not saying you are bad or anything, just that its a very bad metric to base off. Same as coherency as thats just standing next to people.

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43

Well i dont need devs to explain me anything, i might know even more than they are.

I don’t think you gonna have what you want. Might start listen to what players saying or figure it out by yourself, it’s part of the fun.

Btw, have you tried to reach devs directly?
Or you just made this post and hope that devs will find it amongst current shitstorm, and spend time on it? Your not just trying to make excuses right?

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Honestly, this is how I feel about Assail. Like sure, it’s not a waste of space to use it. But outside of malice, it drops off hard. And yet the devs keep nerfing it. I suppose this is what happens when you do difficulty scaling with health. Fixed damage things will dominate the lower difficulties and fall off at high end.

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You are entirely correct, but it is the only way to measure performance that we currently have other than simply watching what our squad is doing.

When my Veteran starts to top the damage meters, I know my squad is playing poorly.

I’m hardly a god gamer, but the number of crayon eaters in Auric Maelstrom (Lesser Monstrosity, Nurgle Blessed, Blitz, Sniper combination) lately is staggering.

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I am going to regret asking this, ain’t i? Excuses for what? What exactly do you think i am making excuses for?

I posted a thread into the feedback section of the official forum. I do not need to hunt down and harass individual devs. If they want to respond to me, they will respond to me. Or better yet, they won’t respond to me, but instead post a video explaining it to the community.

As for visibility… this is the feedback section of the official forum. You make it sound like i went to the City Forum of a rural town in Zimbabwe, and went to the “offtopic subforum” to post this.

If it isn’t going to be seen here, then we all can just stop providing feedback, because apparently nobody is reading the official feedback forum.

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47

Excuse to not learn and adapt yourself or listen to others.
But that is just a speculation, don’t mind it.

It’s just weird that you disregard players feedback and expect devs to tell you how to play the game, that is literally never hapens. Players always teach other players, devs just working on the game, and they don’t have to be nesceceraly good at the game itself.

I think no dev can better explain how to use chax then Reginald did, especially with all the data he is gathered.
Players do some work too.

Fair point. Its just hard to tell if they are looking or not, because they dont talk to much.

You don’t just provide feedback, you ask for answer.
Even if they will see this, i really doubt they will answer.

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48

I thnik the majority of the Vet players play style got gutted with the patch. Meele vet is good. So you can play it like zealot occasionally pulling out your weapon to take down elites here and there. But old play style of staying back and poping heads and going into the meele when enemies are close is kinda rough at the moment. And Volley fire is losing a lot of value due to Toughness DR talent being bugged.

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49

You don’t need to, especially considering Born Leader shares 15% toughness you recieve, means the more agressive you are the better support affect you provide for your team. Use VoC to stagger things you are gonna ingage in melee/force mute to drop your ally, etc. Or to earn some space/safety with slower weapons like bolter or plasma when reloading/swap. Don’t take revive shout subnode, it’s prevent you to be aggressive, better use VoC proactive than reactive, it’s just was like that in V2 with Kruber merc ultimate or Saltz priest, same in DT.

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It was my mistake first aswell, i remember i said Focus Tartger is comlete trash, aswell as 16 secs is too long to get 8 stacks, it feels so only in Psykanium, in organic situation 16 secs is a flash. So i was completely wrong.

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51

What are you talking about? Unless you only skill the main node of the keystone, you gain pretty good benefits even if you tag enemies as fast as you can kill them.
And it does not matter if you kill the enemy, or if a teammate does.

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52

I still maintain mark vet is probably the easiest and most natural to use, especially because you can keep an ok up time through remarking and killing.

Melee vet is a close second but loses out a bit just because I’m trying to be a bit more conscious with my jungle fighter plasma gun but to get the most out of that first shot after melee stacks.

I think the mark mode could definitely have that stupid tax node before it removed tho. Literally put it near the top of the tree and replace the + stam or something.

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53

I mean genuinely, I’m curious about this.

We all remember the stuff from Vermintide 2 right? One of the lead creatives saying how he likes to hide information from players to make it more difficult to min/max?

How this actually led to the opposite happening, because min/maxers inevitably spent the additional time to do the research, going through forums etc. So in the end only the min/maxers knew what anything did, and everyone else just used whatever.

Is the same dumb stuff happening here? Obfuscation to create false complexity? Or to hide poor design?

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54

Tell the truth this is a fair question considering in beta we didn’t even know the stats and damage weapons were doing and they were just vague bars.

My other tinfoil hat theory is that the first internal test values are different from the release branch because we got a different brands that was released by accident with placeholder tax nodes.

I mean compared to other trees who really thinks 5% HP when the Ogryn for example gets two +25 toughness nodes right next to each other is good, really now.

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Yea, because the stats screen (a massive improvement that’s new to the Tide formula in DT) wasn’t done. I can’t recall, did they get the breakdowns and whatnot in before or after launch?

We have better visibility into stats/mechanics on weapons than ever before. It’s amazing.

The game is complex. There are so many interactions and mechanics that I’d love to see given the full stats-screen treatment like we got for weapons. But poor design? False complexity? I don’t see it…and to bring it back around to the Vet tree discussion, I don’t know what else the devs could say about these keystones. The “vanilla” one-node-cost version of each is maybe not worth taking, just like every other classes’ keystones.

But what they are meant to do, and I have seen that they actually doodoo in practice, is right there on the tin: MF to hit headshots (take the Camoflauge node to basically never lose stacks). FT to be a Witch Hunter Captain and give team-wide buffs for a trivial zero-cost action. WS to get big melee buffs and free bullets.

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Yes, i will mind being low key insulted, especially in a thread that is literally about me requesting for the Devs to tell us how they imagine us to play the game and so i can learn how its meant to be used.

You are suggesting that i disingenuously made this thread. So yes, i will mind.

Only way to know, is to ask. I don’t expect it, but i asked regardless, hoping that they will actually tell us how they imagine it to be used. How it will work in Damnation, ideally with an demonstration for how to make it work. To show us what they envision for the game and to tell us how they are intended to work.

If they go “if you do X and Y and Z”… or even if they answer and say “we never balanced it around Damnation, the intended way to play the game is Malice, which is what we balance around” ultimately doesn’t matter to me. But it helps me set my expectation.

If, say Marksman Focus, was balanced around the number of enemies on Malice, and thus i probably shouldn’t even try for a 100% uptime, in the same way i do with say my Ogryn Keystones… then that is fine for me.

But i want to know how it is intended to be used. It isn’t a question of “can i somehow make it work”, it is an “you made this thing, please explain to me what you thought about when you made it” request.

Again, the way I experience the game is different from what i imagine the Devs experience or envision for their game. And as such i would like to learn what the difference is. How to act differently to make better use of the Mechanics as intended.

Knowing how the mechanics are intended to function also will help the community to provide feedback and help with bug finding and the like.

I already addressed that in this thread. Scroll up, you will surely find my post, where i talk about it.

Still could be improved. Like say getting damage break downs for those weapons that have a special activation. Like… say when you click on the special activation it should show the damage of the powered up powersword.

It also would be nice if the break downs would actually take the Blessings and Perks of the weapons into account. Or better yet, provide a toggle option, where you can add and remove showing of said blessings and perks. Of course, that is not to say i don’t appreciate the breakdowns. I love to know how things work.

But the amount of insight we have, make me assume the idea is not to obfuscate. There are also a number of Dev notes in the Patchnotes telling us some of their intentions for things. Which i not only greatly appreciate, but also is the reason why i even bothered with this request in the first place.

I really would love to pick the Dev’s brains about their thought process behind this change and how they intend it to work. Ideally showing us how you make it work and talking about what their design goals were and how they imagine it used.

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57

So I hear from from the pub in general, probably the reason why I play it more now than ever. Kraked, VoC powered commando is really strong and gives you more survivability, you just have to play close to action. Easily my fav pick, despite recent nerfs. People got used too much to playing around the damage resistance provided by Volley Fire.

I doubt this is the final version of the vet tree, many people are unhappy with it for a lot of sensible reasons. The tree is too bloated with talents you don’t really want, and build in a way you cannot easily dip for talents from different tree branches. This unnecessarily limits hybrid build potential, even if you decide to give up on keystones.

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58

Well what you are doing is becoming a zealot in sharpshooter class, your HP/Toughness does not allow you to perform with same stats as zealot, your damage is more specific than universal, and your ulti is way to weak to be used as a save option from danger. the only thing that is decent in your role is krak nades. its the only love the sharpshooter got anyway, the smoke nade is bad, the frags are useless and limited.

Its not the issue “volley fire 75% toughness resistance” its the universal anti toughness the sharpshooter got.

pre-patch 13 , toughness was 259 for me, downed 197 in patch 13, now 179, and confirmed kill ability got nerfed by 50% of stats, not to mention old volley fire gave 60% toughness and was removed, patch 14 VoC nerfed its toughness by 50 also.

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The Volley Fire toughness was bugged, in that it was a universal toughness damage resistance instead of ranged only as described.

Base toughness was reduced to 100 from 200 in patch 13, with 100 toughness in the talent tree over 7 nodes, but no one was going to get all of them with how they were spread. There are although toughness damage reduction nodes but again spread out.

Patch 15 reduced that to 65 over 3 nodes and the big ones are pretty expensive to go for unless you’re going full middle. Along with that Exhilarating Takedown is bugged and Confirmed Kill was nerfed, though both are more easily reachable but still rely on kills to activate.

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I’m sorry to you hear that you haven’t found yourself yet with how vet works now, but we aren’t going back to the time when vet could press a button and virtually just stand there for the ability duration.

This works also fairly well for me in Damn+, you can see a theme developing. I’m fond of kraks and VoC, because despite what you think these allow me for quite a bit of flexibility and survivability, to push out of bad spots, revive, get rid of some carapace, stagger/focus monsters. Other nades are weak in my opinion, frag does poor dmg vs armour, smokes are close to useless sadly and will always lose vs other options. I play this also with Graia, not just MK VII. Blessings on autoguns feel a bit weak now, thanks to the changes to Close Range distance, I think I went with DumDum and Deathspitter on Graia.

An open question to someone who actually tested this, does “Charismatic” talent affect other talents which are NOT the aura and are Coherency based? I know it says otherwise on the description, but we all know how it works with Fatshark. I’m thinking stuff like