Buffing Veteran Smoke Grenade

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
41

I haven’t run the numbers, but Darktide is a far more hectic and fast paced game than it used to be. The game throws more things at you, faster. Several youtubers have talked about it, but I don’t have the numbers in front of me. From personal experience, I’d say that’s the case.

I LOVE IT. It’s a perfect blend of coop strat play and fast reflex shooter.

I think the new classes have NAILED the target with the current Darktide. They are all better designed classes than the originals, better synergized, better laid out, and that has lead to deep enjoyment as I’ve tried out builds.

So… do we walk all those improvements back, completely rework the 3 new classes, or does Fatshark simply update their old classes to match the design philosophy of the new ones?

There are so many clunky aspects to the old classes in terms of design that I definitely want to see them reworked REGARDLESS.

As for ranged… honestly, when I die, it’s usually because of Poxburster bugs or ranged enemies. I get caught out without cover or the right resources and bam, I’m dead. (Though the sound cues in this game are just so good I can dodge quite a lot of damage, so that’s pretty rare.)

If you wanted to make ranged REALLY nasty, you’d reduce the distance where they switch to melee and you’d make them start shooting earlier.

That would make rushing them a nightmare.

ehhh, that’s a pretty heavy investment just to get to Gunners. Opportunity costs should be rewarded. If someone wants to focus that much on Gunners, their build will suffer elsewhere.

42

That depends on what is what we call an “improvement”. Just straight out buffs to a point where you can screen wipe entire rooms like Psyker or HS can do at the moment with ease is definitely no improvement for the game. Arbitrator being almost unkillable in it’s Castigator Stance while dealing ridiculous amounts of damage is neither. I personally just want the powercreep reduced, especially Soulblaze and other things that just deal way too much damage.

There are so many playstyles and abilities for pretty much all classes that make no sense because they get completely overshadowed by the broken stuff. These broken things are no improvements, they are the opposite of that.

43

Yup could double as a stun tool for Crushers, Bulwark.

44

like i said, i´m done here and said my part.
at least keep honest about one thing though,

used every insult, slur or trash talk in the book when tempers flew high in a 1vs1 tournament.

compared with todays “nicing” its a night and day difference.

and somehow we still grew a pair, had thicker skin and most of all didnt call something “toxic” when someone called something out :man_shrugging:

personally i prefer a “no nonsense approach” to “entitled gamer speech” but hey, thats just me.

yet i have to admit the

wasnt coined by me but came around the time power creep got obvious.

i just found it “cute” compared to what it would have been called on a lan party in the late 90s :joy:

45

exactly, just like the flamethrower where in lower difficulties doesn’t seem to be efficient because of the low amount of enemies, but in the higher difficulties it becomes strong because can clear out hordes quick etc.

46

i like index’s posts

47

well not all levels there is fun, if you do malice or below there is literally 0 enemies, where enemies don’t actually spawn at all and maps are empty, it’s not fun but it’s why the real game is at auric/maelstorm

48

I think that’s more an issue with the Inferno Staff and I really don’t understand why it hasn’t been nerfed.

Honestly, I think the entire Psyker Tree should be reworked. There are tweaks that need to be made to address abuse, but also to allow for more diverse builds. It’s one of the reasons I don’t run Psyker much anymore, despite starting with it.

49

it got reworked like many times, we already had enough reworks
they just need to nerf and nuke things

50

I know several people who play at those lower levels. One is an older guy and that’s just the speed he plays at. That’s what he enjoys. And there’s no reason to shaft him. He’s just as valid a gamer as you are.

Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard it. Strongly disagree. The game has moved in a positive direction; Skitarii is a masterclass in talent tree design. The older classes deserve a good rework to bring them up to par and open up more build options.

Looking backwards will hold the game back, not improve it.

51

where did I shaft him?

? i didn’t say he’s not valid

i just said lower difficulties can make certain things look like weak or not efficient but it’s because of the difficulty.

in reality smoke nades are S tier, you can recognize this a lot in havoc where they actually provide immense support, especially if used properly.

idk if skitarii has this amount of build options to be honest, people just using arc rifle and that’s it cause op. the shield blitz using nades is kinda meh also

52

I’ve put together 4 really fun builds and half a dozen experimental ones as I worked through penances. It’s a well designed tree that really lets you tinker. I had a ton of fun with HS and Arbites in the same vein.

53

One argument I still don’t understand is, you keep saying going backwards in regards to nerf requests. Someone once said he’d rather prefer the player power as it was at release rather than the powercreep we got now, but I understood it as a theoretical example, not that this was what he wanted for the game.

The point about nerfing many of the things is not that we go back to release, it’s mainly to get rid of the screen wiping builds we got thanks to excessive powercreep so the core gameplay mechanics don’t get overshadowed and the game doesn’t need to throw 30+ Crushers at you to be a challenge. Nobody wants to get rid of the new classes or weapons, just that they are balanced with all the other stuff and that is better done by first nerfing the overpowered outliers that currently hurt the game most and then buff some of the underpowered things.

I wouldn’t call nerfing player power going backwards, it’s at this point a necessary progress to go forward. Look at how boring and irrelevant the arc grenades of the Skitarii are, they basically do the same thing like the HS Boom Bringer and Toxin Grenades do, they screen wipe a bunch of Elites.

54

which is kinda the number of builds you can do pretty much on all archetypes

55

Nah, he said that’s what he wanted. Others have reiterated the “nuke” sentiment.

I’ve seen several posters say otherwise, but I’m glad that’s not your opinion.

Man, I don’t know what to tell you, but that would be the direction the game would go anyway with Auric and Havoc.

I don’t see the appeal of the old, slower paced game. I certainly don’t see the appeal of returning all the classes to what they were like at launch… god, that was awful, frankly. Fatshark has made a world of improvements, the game moves faster, and it’s a much more enjoyable experience, IMO.

If you liked the slower pace of the old game, that’s fine, but I don’t think the solution is to kneecap the new classes. I also think those who call for the new modes to be deleted are also barking up the wrong tree.

I really don’t see how you’re going to increase the difficulty of the game without throwing more enemies at players. That’s sort of inevitable. Good level designs with active hazards could give the players difficulties to navigate through, but people tend to complain about “events.” Timers can ratchet up tension, but the game master sort of already does that. New enemies would as well.

So… new levels, new enemies, and new hazards. Those would definitely have the desired effect and people would definitely appreciate them, but then they would also be learned and you’re right back to more enemies being the only way to increase difficulty.(in addition to modifiers, of course.)

I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. If it were so game breaking, I wouldn’t play with people and lose. Sometimes you make space and it works out. Other times, it doesn’t. Go ahead, throw the grenade, because there will be more enemies later and maybe you should have saved it.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve see the screen wiped and not even 3 seconds later it’s filling back up to the brim.

In short, they’re fine. But if you dislike screen wipes so much, you should incentivize using non-screen wipe blitzes, like the smoke grenade. Say, having it tag enemies in the smoke.

56

Nah, that’s just the number of builds I have that I enjoy. I could make a bunch more tweaks and weapon-specific combos. The top-down talent trees just have more taxes to get where you need to go.

Arbities has 3 tax points. Hive Scum has 1. Ogryn has 5, unless you go center route. Psyker has 5. Veteran has 2, but an extra long talent tree. Zealot has 3 or 4.

Skitarii has 0. Every talent point invested is actively modifying the build in more than just a minor boost to base stats. Every Blitz, Keystone, and Ability is close enough to start point so that associated talent points can be comboed with talent points that wouldn’t normally be easily accessible in a traditional tree.

It’s just a fantastic design. Couple talent point duds, but they are easily avoided.

57

you can do this even with other classes…

the mini “tax” nodes on all characters give movement speed and toughness etc.
hence why skitarii can be bit more slower than other archetypes etc.

skitarii shield is not used because underwhelming, and same for the skull flamethrower… i never seen anyone running it, because again underwhelming when other options are better

and the ranged ult also kinda meh

58

I meant for the lower skilled players playing on lower diffs

59

Well, I mean, you don’t have to run the absolute best version of every build to have fun.

I can absolutely decimate with the Automated Combat Doctrine, but I don’t use it much because it always tanks my accuracy in other builds if i use it too long.

Shield is a bit of a selfish choice, but great for running claw when you need to close with ranged,

60

not really cause you can use it also as res option, when someone gets downed you can proc it and res, which helps you in case things go wrong