Blightstormer and Life Leech needed to counter adjacent heroes

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Versus Feedback
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Blightstormer and Life Leech needs to be added for Versus. Main reason is hero teams that never split are a huge balance issue at the moment. There is nothing you can do against them as Pactsworn:

Packmaster, Gutter Runner, Warpfire Thrower and Ratling Gunner are completely useless when all heroes stick together. As soon as you stick your head out you’re dead. Only Poison Wind Globadier is somewhat meh (still useless but at least you will force them to reposition a bit, although 90% of the time they simply ignore the poison and carry on as if nothing had happened)

About Monsters… meh as well, they can literally die in 5 seconds (and even less) when the hero team is close to each other like I just explained.

Left4Dead had several counters for this, but Versus has none. Let me explain:

Smoker being able to split teams from afar (you cannot do this as Packmaster, because this guy must enter melee range first before attempting to grab anyone, and he does a lot of noise. Spoiler he dies before making contact).

Packmaster is more similar to the Jockey from Left4Dead, and we need something like the Smoker. This is why the Life Leech and the Blightstormer should be added.

Boomer, another counter for being too close to each other in Left4Dead. We have Troll’s puke in Versus but let’s be real, that’s not a counter. There is only one Monster per level and his puke is situational, like 99.99% of the time only affects 1 or 2 players, 3 at best. He is not capable of countering coordinated teams like these.

Charger was also another one able to split teams in L4D2. We need more of these tools.

More crucial feedback:

•Increase Gutter Runner pounce max damage:

If you land on a player but die immediately, at least you guarantee that you have taken away some of his health. The amount of health taken currently is very low. Buff needed to counter those kinds of teams.

•Increase fall damage from Warfire Thrower, aka buff Skaven Space Program. This tactic is needed sometimes to counter those teams. More than half of the time they do not receive any damage when they land from the sky, which is bs.

•Nerf Shields:

Increase the stamina they consume from Ratling Gunners’ shots.

•Buff Poison Wind Globadier:

Increase initial Poison damage a tiny bit, in case they wanna go through ignoring it.

•Nerf premades:

They have a win rate of +95% (probably more, since jtcLIVE said he never lost a game while playing with friends). When they join a lobby, force them to face each other placing them in different teams. Controversial but needed change. There is literally nothing random solo players can do against them. It’s just not fun. I’m not sure about 2 players, but more than that split them in opposing teams. This should have been done a long time ago.

•Fix matchmaking:

I see sometimes 2 solo players in one team, a premade of 3 in the other team, and the incoming player is joining them. I say to myself when this happens: “what the heck is this joke?”.

Yeah is super frustrating because the premade doesn’t need any more help. They are already obliterating us. *_*”

Also, I’ve seen as well a full team and the other team having only 1 player when starting a game… so yeah… Mix people better please.

•Add AI Pactsworn specials if there aren’t enough players in their team. Either add this or remove hero bots entirely. It’s not fair having bots in one side and none in the other. Huge imbalance issue, especially in the first ten minutes of a game.

2 Likes
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No, they’ll create more problems than solutions

What if we only increase the pounce damage against Temp HP

Temp HP is one of the reasons why Assassin can be so frustrating, because if everyone is on TempHP and you pounce someone, chances are you’re dealing 0 damage to the green HP

So… just make it deal +10/+15 extra pounce damage (or less if not enough THP) on the target’s THP

No, and this is intentional

Heroes do not take fall damage if they were launched by a Flamerat, they’ll only “take damage” (instadown) if they go out of bounds

Space program is already kinda messy in itself with how connection works, let’s not make it a reliable tactic but keep it as a silly gambit as it is rn

Yes but also nerf base damage from 1 to 0.75

Ratling needs a nerf against heroes with no shields

If it’s just a bit it’s not gonna make a change in Heroes ignoring it

The issue is people not using globadier correctly. People just throw it around because they can instead of actually thinking when and how to throw it. No buff can allow people to skip this unless we go into the previous ludicrous gasrat iteration

90% of the times it’s not even the premades what the issues are, it’s the classes they play

Have you noticed how every problematic premade always (90% of the time) has a Warrior Priest, Outcast Engineer, Footknight and/or Handmaiden?

If yes congrats, you’ll recognize that these classes enable these extremely bad “stay together” shenanigans, by essentially giving so much resistance and HP to each other (and engi just poops trollhammer to bosses) to the point that nothing can stop them unless a +3 coordinated disabler team

The moment these classes are nerfed in versus, the pactsworn will have a lot more air to breathe and their plays will have impact

But yes just nerf these classes and your average premades will become jokes

Yes, and also give us fundamentals like…

  • Balancing teams around versus player level
  • Remove the “Early Win” trigger, make the game still go even if the losing team can’t catch up (Most of the times this just takes away the chance of people playing rats)
  • End the game when everyone on a team leaves (just like in L4D2)
  • Allow us to vote to restart the level (In case people want to restart it for whatever reason, like 3 people on a team ragequitting while waiting for new ones)

Troll is an OP beast lol

He can puke a group, globadiers have free reign while people are puked, ratlings have free shots on heroes, and disablers can still target those non vomited

Rogre sucks

Sure AI special would be good

1 Like
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I respect and agree with some of your responses but others I disagree entirely. Like calling troll OP when he can die in literally 3 seconds, or refusing to believe premades are broken no matter what you try to nerf (they’ll still have a +95% win rate, team composition doesn’t matter that much when they’re coordinated)

There is no counter against decent teams that stick together, we need specials able to SPLIT and SEPARATE those players, this is way adding Blightstormer and Life Leech is a must.

Either that or introduce a new special enemy which unfortunately I don’t see it happen.

Left4Dead had tools to separate players, but Versus has none. As I said before Packmaster is not viable against those kind of teams. He dies before/right after making contact.

I have several hundreds hours in Versus I know what I’m talking about.

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I forgot to say it but for people who bought the Skaven skin pack for Versus, allow them to have those skins available for Specials in other game modes like Adventure mode, etc, when they have them equipped or something like that. Maybe add a toggle On/Off option under Gameplay or Versus Settings to let them choose which skins they want on other game modes.

And last but not least, several hero voice lines were introduced for Versus when using the Command Wheel. Implement those voice lines on other game modes (like Adventure mode, Chaos Wastes, etc) when using the Command Wheel there. Those voice lines are cool and add inmersion to the game when used. It saddens me that those hero voices are only used in Versus at the moment.

1 Like
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You can simply not come down until you have a garanteed death/ledge heavy hit, that’s how you should be playing troll, and it’s really problematic

Troll essentially only dies if he comes down the floor, and the boss killers can pump their entire damage (str, bomb, ults, and so on)

Puke needs nerfing (shouldn’t slow down as much when you get vomited, make it only slow down by 33%) and a slight damage buff (Make it deal 15 damage tops instead of just 8 itself)

Both rogre and Troll should win bomb stagger immunity for at least 10-12s after being staggered

And the best buff for the two of them, remove strength potions spawning by default, this way their HP matters

1 Troll with 2 Globadiers is the most oppresive thing you’ll ever see in this mode, even 1 Globadier enough does garanteed high damage with how current puke works

The issue is that unlike Charger, these 2 would be braindead easy to use, and blighstormer would create 999 more issues than solutions

Because when talking from experience, the issue is both the premade choosing the OP classes, and your teammates being sandbags

If I get just 2 decent teammates who know where they’re standing, and are perceptive of the enemy, I can carry them against any premade (as long as they’re not using the OP classes I mentioned before)

The issue is that this will almost never happen, because the matchmaker is desperate to find a game and will put a 4 team premade against 4 randoms who are just trying versus for the first time

If it was a 4 team premade vs 4 decent players, then it can easily be won by any side

There is also VC in game for a reason, I use it lots and can guide teammates, and if they follow we often win

There’s no way to essentially solving “premades”, however you could try to balance quickplay games by Versus Level and using the Vermintide mechanic (so a team that has a huge positive difference in Versus Level, they get less vermintide, and the other team, gets a lot more)

This way we could make the game more interesting for both sides, the good premade gets to fight a lot more enemy skaven, and the bad randoms get more breathing space so they can adjust accordingly

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You know, as much as I hate to say it, I’ve played a custom game recently that pumped up Vermintide up to 200% (and also made Rat Ogre a normal special with a low chance to spawn, but only has 100 hp) and in experienced vs experienced players it was interesting, the ambience would become so overwhelming that pushing forward was really hard

This is kinda what we would need to solve the “premade” (or better said, high level versus difference)

Overwhelm high level teams with ambience and hordes, it’s as simple as that

1 Like
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I 100% agree with this.

I thought about it long ago but I don’t know how hard would be to implement this, like high ranked teams/premades/winning teams by a huge margin, getting stronger ambient enemies:

+Elites, +Shielded enemies, some Chaos Warriors here and there, Patrols, Hordes, etc.

Having increasing or guaranteed chance to spawn Beastmen faction (and some Standard Bearers along the way), +Patrols… things like that.

And the losing team/solo players/newbies with low rank getting more easy ambient enemies.

About nerfing Troll’s puke, that’s the only thing he has so I don’t agree with that idea. Rogre is weaker okay, but Troll is not that great either. I would still buff him with some limited health regen to incentivice puke and hide, and attack melee only to try to secure victory. If you don’t play like this he’s trash. Bounty Hunter can kill it alone from afar in literally 3 sec but I won’t tell how. So no you don’t even need the rest of the team for that 3 sec kill. Same thing applies to Shade, but at least she needs to get closer.

About hero careers look, everyone is OP if played correctly, and the rest of the team is coordinated enough to stay close to each other. There is no counter to that. I could play Ranger Veteran with no shield, SoTT with bushes or even Slayer and perform way better than any other player with less hours/skill/knowledge playing any other of the stronger careers using meta load outs. They are all strong (and yes, some talents/weapons are more broken than others that’s true, with some weapons being literally unplayable/useless in this mode without the devs heavily buffing them, but what I try to say is that any premade will still destroy you playing the weaker characters with non meta load outs, It won’t matter much what they use, you will still lose)

E.g. A lot of times I faced random players insulting me at the start of a game for playing GK, yelling at me that I was going to be a burden, not knowing that I play solo Weaves and literally most of my games as GK I am the 2nd player on my team with more special kills, right below the typical Waystalker elf spamming ultis for easy kills.

So no, “op” clases are not needed to perform well and win if some one is skilled enough. From my perspective it’s not the classes, but some talents that are problematic and very difficult to counter/play around like Merc’s On Yer Feet, Mates! talent. That and 2, 3 or even 4 friends playing together on comms of course. You cannot win against that no matter how good you are. It’s a waste of time when that happens, so better leave and come back later, or not. Almost all of us have been through that.

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Nerf Puke slowdown from 80% to only 25%, but reduce the Cooldown to 20s (from 24s)

Give Troll a longer stagger resistance than 3s, and as I said before remove Strength Potions, this way they don’t instantly die when going in

Troll is a beast unless the enemy team has an extremely good bosskiller

Buffing the lamest way to play is not ideal

Yes, he needs to do this right now, but with the right changes he might be allowed to be more versatile and not just Fat Globadier to enable fellow Globadiers

Even during the Versus Tournament the casters were like “Yeah troll is forced to hide all the time, it’s just how it is” and that’s a real shame

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You can call them “all OP”, but some are more OP than others (Tierlist made by the community who participated in the Versus Tournament)

It is undeniable that there are classes that can solo carry, classes that can force the entire enemy team to focus them, and classes that literally deny the Skaven some of their win conditions

Meanwhile other classes that require support, and other classes that simply don’t do enough compared to their peers