Been playing Helldivers 2 recently and

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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I usually have a hard rule about MTX in cases where it’s a question of keeping the lights on for always active services.

I’m mostly fine with it in a game like Helldivers 2 because realistically it’s taking the place of an MMO monthly subscription while being optionally gridded for and costing less.

Previously if you didn’t have the $14.99 a month then you could get bent and just not play. A lot of MMOs worked on this same model for an always active online game and even had an initial upfront cost in many cases.

Realistically this is taking the place of what would previously be a subscription for an always online service. I know this is going to be an agree to disagree case but I would much rather a MT based strategy than having to pay 15/ month.

On top of that if there is a warbond I’m not interested in (which at some point is probably going to happen) I can just opt out and not get it. You can’t exactly opt out of a required subscription.

I know people are going to say “Well you can’t compare this to an MMO Rocker!” to which I say look at both the rate of content delivery and the way the overall game is being shaped by active player and developer interaction.

To conclude sure, in the context of it being a single player / 4 player coop game micro transactions suck but in the context of getting charged 15 per month I’m fairly ok with it.

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496

Sorry, what? HD2 is an MMO now?! :laughing:

It’s using P2P architecture, for crying out loud! Aside form the little bit about the galactic war there’s nothing in here that requires upkeep.

Plus if you really think the MXs are not used to line investor pockets first and foremost I’ve got a bridge to sell you. The server costs are going to be miniscule. The biggest “cost” is probably continued development, but I’d much rather have a higher base cost to facilitate that than some MX-dependant BS like we have now…

I’ve addressed this already. Generally for tangible in-game results you’ll need a few things from a bond, and there’s a good chance most will be on page 1 to incentivise unlocking the bond in the first place. That means you don’t need many medals. Yes, it’s not “pay now, unlock instantly”. But it’s definitely “pay now, skip the grind”.

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497

Did not think like that, but I must agree.
And I have even played game with subscription (mainly Neocron and Face of manking and later Wow 2 - 3 months)

Perso i am fine with a game that renew your pleasure. That’s what I ask to a game, entertain me.
And DT fails to deliver content in time to keep me interested. Don’t get me wrong, I still love DT… but I feel bored to always repeat same maps, same missions with same scripted path, same mounstruosities, killed with same weapons.
That’s also my fear with HD2, fear that is less important than in DT considering the warbounds system.

There are servers (or you would start from scratch every time you open the game), anti cheat system and they develop new content.
This costs money…

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498

Agree to disagree on that one.

I’ll take the 3 bucks I spent on top of the $40 base game over having to pay 60-70 and end up with MTs anyways because of the piper needing payed.

Maybe because I’ve learned not to be susceptible to FOMO or at least less affected by it but I would rather not pay $70 up front when that’s basically most of a grocery order.

499

Oh, yeah, storing the few KBs of data to track the unlocks is definitely super expensive and requires a dedicated server infrastructure and all other games that do this, definitely, need alternative payment methods… :man_facepalming:t2:

Actually, given the PvE nature, players could use an on-disk save file with Steam’s cloud sync and no one would mind. Yeah, you could then unlock everything via an editor - but it’s a PvE game, why care?

Same thing with the anti-cheat. The only reason it’s in the game is to protect the precious MX shop in the first place. The galactic war processing is the only bit that MAYBE requires a bit of upkeep. But I’ve seen more impressive server-based stuff in games which aren’t MX-driven.

Active development is the only real cost here. But that can hardly be called “upkeep”, now can it?

Who’s the “piper” in this case? If it’s some investor that demands an MX shop then I suppose you’re right. The other instance is it’s an ACTUAL MMO.

In any other case there’s no excuse.

I wouldn’t pay that much for a game at all, ever. This 70USD (or more!) price tag some publishers are pushing is insanity.

500

Hmm, given where the conversation is going, perhaps some context is in order:

Sony have been considering the PC market for a long, long time. 20+ years, give or take a console generation. This is no secret and has been widely published and journalized about.

Within this consideration, eventually they decided that some games can and should be re-released or remastered for PC (Dad of Boy, TLoU, Horizon and now Ghost of Tsushima to name some of the bigger ones, among many others).
Some of these re-releases and remasters made a ton of money on PC, which then prompted Sony to take the complete left turn and start an entire division in order to develop several Live Service titles by 2026 (also largely journalized). One of these titles was HD2.

As part of that Live Service push, an old Sony partner (note, partner, not subsidiary) AHGS presented an interesting opportunity among the other Live Service Sony projects for PC, and so development began. This was nearly 8 years ago, now…

Key takeaways here, most of which are safe assumptions:

  1. As part of getting the deal to gain Sony backing and access to the PS and PC platform, the game had to be a Live Service, which gelled well with the HD concept, as the Galactic War has been that in a lesser form since the dawn of the first game.
  2. As part of the Live Service list of features the game had to include MTX, Shop Rota and a Battlepass equivalent. HD1 once more comes in perfectly, as it had DLCs instead of all that, but the studio knew how to present the content appropriately.
  3. AHGS being an independent developer, gaining the backing of longstanding partner and all this access meant a relatively small gamble that was projected to pay for itself and score some earnings.

Now, the twist - AHGS blew the industry out of the water with a historic release that dwarfed any previous Sony release on PC. At the perfect time, with the perfect setup, no less. And for the Double Twister - because of point 3 above, how AHGS decided to implement these Live Service mechanics was up to them, so long as the money made sense. So, what did we get:

  • one of, if not the best possible itterations of a Battle Pass.
  • a Shop Rota that has no FOMO.
  • an actual Live Service.
  • a splendidly fun game.
  • a studio that repeatedly makes the right decisions since launch, avoiding politics and communicating like their game depended on it.

Lightning in a bottle. Which, to make some point with this wall of text, doesn’t happen often, specially with the industry as it is today.
So - enjoy.
Love it or hate it, the consensus is clear.

A long one, I know. Here, have a Jetpack:
image

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501

How does that work? It seems kinda opaque from my POV, so it still should be FOMO.

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502

I’m with @Ragnarok101 on this one. WAT?

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503

(Had to edit Shaamaan in there)

Two armor sets per rotation, 2 day cycle.
That armor with the unique perk combo? It’s already been available 5 (maybe more) times already, for a total of 120 (at least) hours overall.

This allows for the disambiguation of FOMO - if you care, you know it’ll be back, should you miss it (I already missed the Heavy Armor with Medic perks, which should be even more shouted about than the light one, but w/e, and got it 4 days later…).
If you don’t care - you don’t care. No FOMO.

There’s a fansite that tracks current and previous sets (Helldivers 2 Superstore Rotation Today - New Armor in Stock) but while typing this out I tried to find the full content by set and couldn’t.
The reason for that, I feel, is echoed in the discord and the overall game design - nobody cares, really. It’s done in such a way that isn’t in your face and doesn’t detract from what you booted the game to do - dive.

To further my wall above - when a gamedev states their game will be built with gaming in mind and the mtx will be tertiary, it’s one thing. Often just marketing. When they actually do it, it’s impressive and worth the applause. When they continue to stand by it, even in the face of great success, that’s historic.

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504

I believe that it points that the armors keep coming back… but maybe later they will propose more and then these items would need more time to return.

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505

I think the important point is they also came back with the same price and same content they had previously (Looking at you Darktide with your BS of taking things out of existing bundles to nickel an dime harder)

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506

Eh…

That’s still FOMO - unless there’s a clearly laid-out schedule communicated to the buyer, it still runs off of FOMO. Less so than Darktide’s ‘here for 2 weeks, then gone forever’ initial plan and the current ‘6 weeks and then it might never return’ implementation, but still FOMO.

HD2’s monetization is stuff I would have hated in 2010, but in the context of corporate gaming, it’s so minimal as to be non-objectionable.

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507

Theoretically the same is true of DT, and yet everyone calls that FOMO. :thinking:

Well that’s not really an argument for nor against. :laughing:

I feel like the HD premium store is a lot more “significant” in HD than in DT precisely because of the potential impact on gameplay, vs the cosmetic-only stuff in DT. And yet people call DTs FOMO and HDs… not? :man_shrugging:t2: OK, I’m really confused as to what’s going on here. I feel like HD2 is getting a free-pass (and even praise) from people for some weird reason, whereas another game does cosmetic-only MXs and gets bashed for it.

About the only thing HD does right with the premium shop is the fact that the prices are low AND you can farm the currency…

I suppose perhaps that’s all it takes. This sort of reminds me of Warframe, where you can purchase some Alpha frames… or you can farm the components and build them yourself. disclaimer: I’ve not played Warframe in a LONG time; things might have changed since…

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508

lol… yes…
prices were ridiculously high and they still wanted more money…
I think they have lost me here… when I realized how everything was too expensive.

Must say that the HD2 “shop” is not impressive at all. But at least, your clearly not forced to buy and prices are fair (especially considering you can get them for free as you can find super credits in missions)

Frankly… no
Best armors are in warbounds… and this is where you should invest “money”.

Even some are just “recolors” (not totally true as it is different models ;P) of what you can find in warbounds

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509

That’s kind of what happens when the game is good and communication is consistent and logical.

It also helps that there hasn’t been literal quarter year gaps between content updates.

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510

You need to expand on this though. Unless there’s been some recent update I’m not aware of, heavy armor is very much meh and it’s much better running in light armor for speed and stamina. But unless I’m looking at the wrong bonds the light variants I’d be interested in don’t appear anywhere (ex. medic + light), but I know they exist which means they must have been released in the premium shop.

God-damn Overton window! *shakes fist*

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511

The 10% damage reduction and armor rating coupled with explosion resistance make it pretty useful against bots iirc.

512

Helldiver

Balancing adjustments have been made to

  • Heavy and medium armor protects better and you now take about 10% less damage than before while wearing heavy and about 5% less when wearing medium armor. Fortified commando and light armor is unchanged

How much it actually matters i can’t really say.

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513

Less an Overton window and more resignation.

We fought it, we lost, so now every company is going to have this if they feel they can get away with it.

Game publishers and C-suite types are just…like that.

This is backsliding from how bad it could have been because they could be pulling a Fatshark or a Blizzard on the skins, but they haven’t. It’s largely ‘go play the game and have fun’ stuff, with incentives to keep having fun. I am slightly salty at the warbond grind but in comparison to modern nickel and diming it’s better.

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514

saying a shop rotation isn’t fomo because the content is readily accessable is weird.

its in the name, FEAR your preying on the fear, and impulsive buying, the fact that you are fine with it since you educated yourself on the contents, is kinda irrelevant to the subject

if it can happen that someone impulse buys because he thinks he might miss out, then its fomo…

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