Bardin - Ranger Veteran - Passive ability: Survivalist

The underlying problem is that virtually all ranged careers can take care of their own ammunition without relying on RV at all for anything really. There are always Bardin Ammo Drops left lying around because ammo is so plentiful without anything Bardin RV contributes.

RV’s passive needs to be far more of a boon just to himself with NO focus on ammo.

Recovering ammo for everyone will just end up with the boring game where everyone just kills everything long before anyone even gets in melee range. 2018 ranged meta was for me the most terrible, closely followed by FlyFreeMancer Skull Spam.

After the BBB2.0 and even though I still think it’s not even been a power creep but a power leap as a result of the weapon buffs, we’re probably at a point where some minor things need to be adjusted and reworked, but some of the arbitrary suggestions for talent changes are becoming a little baffling. Fundamental sweeping changes such as passives need some very considered thought and lots of testing. >> instert comment about HS Sure Shot here. >> Simple stacking everyone with ammo is a pretty bad idea.

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RIP 2018 slayer

Sigh, so I said “weapon by weapon”

Honestly, I saw a lot people liked and enjoyed 2018’s ranged meta. But, that is NOT what I want to talking about in this topic.

Likely the only difference would be: You don’t have to find that ammunition pouch/sack, and push “E” button to grab it.

Aye, so you just want to make Survivalist more streamlined/fluid?

Pouches should be extra ammo, not his base ammo sustain.

I think a concept where rv would get a certain % of ammo back on special kill or A built in share and share alike is the way to go. This way Rv doesn’t get punished when allies take his ammo.
Ofcourse this doesn’t fix the issue where rv can basically have zero ammo sustain when there are no specials available, so there’s also that to consider.

Currently when using 30% ammo you don’t notice this, because you have so much ammo you can literally shoot the wall and still have enough.

I wouldn’t make a special kill give automatically a certain % to allies.

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This could work. I agree.

Thank you for liking the idea, but this

would still be an issue :slight_smile: so it would just be a bandaid

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I imagine that’s an intended weakness? there’s not many scenarios where that becomes an issue anyway

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Huntsman Kruber has a talent that gives you 10% of max ammunition when kill specials.

“Shot Crafter: Killing a special restore 10% ammunition.”

And it works really well, imo. So, I think it would be nice that Ranger Veteran Bardin has this too.

Sure, it could be an intended weakness.

A weakness towards shotguns, which yet has to reach huntsman :stuck_out_tongue:

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Then stop making suggestions to bringing back the range meta :man_facepalming:

In what situation are you constantly running out of ammo that you NEED RV to give you more?

What’s the real issue here? Tell us the real reason why you really want this talent…

QoL, that’s all.

We’ve already had the QoL improvements to the drops; The positioning has been changed to drop at his feet rather than at the specials location.

While I agree that there is very little use for RV ammo drops, simply giving ammo out is not the solution. Truly reckless players can regularly run out of ammo at Legend with any class, but RV is no better off that any other career and is not so far behind other careers that he MUST have the ammo drops.

IF a player is short of ammo and can’t be bothered to run over and pick up an ammo pouch that’s a problem with the player - not the drop.

If there was a potion or buff that was only available from the RV( Like the GK vows offer buffs only based upon the GK being in the party) then it might work. A potion that ONLY Bardin drops that gives players a unique …thing… would be better than ammo.

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Others have pointed out Survivalist base ammo sustain is pitiful, potentially the worst out of all the ranged careers and even some melee careers/meme builds like:

  • Blood Fletcher Shade
  • Swift Bow Handmaiden
  • Volley Crossbow Zealot
  • Blerc (Merc crit Blunderbuss)

Sienna and Ironbreaker have alternatives + Slayer makes better use out of Throwing Axes.

Here’s some suggestions and QoL tweaks that could be made.


  • Increase base capacity to 100%
    Equivalent to 15% caches just for Bardin or a 1 ammo buff and an increased capacity would help in lord fights with no specials + Opens up Scrounger

  • Built in Share and Share Alike
    Curbs ammo thieving, toxicity/griefing and Throwing Axes can benefit from allies picking up caches. (Players can stand behind RV and spam E to insta grab pouches as they drop)

  • Separate Bombs and Potions into individual talents
    Adding psuedo randomness or tweaking it to be on every x special would make the talent more reliable. Separating potions and bombs but bumping the % would also allow players to specialize and encourage more usage of either potions or bombs.

  • Reduce Grungni’s Cunning to 20%
    To compensate for the increased ammo capacity and built in Share and Share Alike.
    (6 ammo per Handgun/Grudge cache, 8 ammo per Crossbow cache)

  • Introduce new talents to support consumable builds
    Potions and bombs are strong but are one time use items. Buffing RVs capabilities after using said items would be a better way to go about it.
    e.g Fatshark could reintroduce Drunken Brawler as “Consuming a potion grants 15% attack speed and 15% power for 30 seconds” something along those lines (Just an example)


Other notes:

  • Share and Share Alike had a “bug” that allowed Bardin to gain 2 lots of ammo from 1 cache, this would have to be ironed out to keep the suggestions balanced.

  • Current Scavenger replaces ammo on item drops, I’m not sure if that should remain.
    Depending on the consumable drop chance, it could potentially feel bad to replace caches on drop.

@Incandescent and @anon75893681 have helped give feedback, I’m sure they could chip in with their thoughts. :heart:

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Something to keep in mind, for readers. Pseudo chance would make it more reliable, but it wouldn’t fix the issue of lower difficulties having low amount of specials. I think the idea of giving an item on every “x” special kill would be the best, as fatshark could tweak the amount per difficulty to make this talent proc a bit more and balance it better. Yes the argument could be made that lower difficulties don’t need alot of items, but it would be better for the player using it that he atleast feels like his talent has a use and doesn’t drop 1 potion per map (example). With using the per “x” special kill, fatshark could balance it to give 1 item per special wave, regardless of difficulty.

I do think bringing back share and share alike in place of Grungni’s Cunning and then buffing base value of caches to 20% is probably the play overall though

of course would need testing

Possibly but I think built in Share and Share Alike would curb any kind of griefing/toxicity and more importantly put Ranger Veteran at the forefront of his own passive.

After much thought, removing Grungni’s Cunning would probably hurt firing fury crossbow builds, not just doomranger. At the very least it would be an indirect nerf to the Firing Fury + Master of Improvisation combo. It would probably upset a lot of RV players.

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Personally I like his ammo pouches, it’s more interesting (my opinion) than an other ammo sustain. Plus, it makes it easier to spot the ales if you go with that talent.

Not seeing it. Hunter Grudgeraker with 30% ammo gives you unlimited ammo and unlocks a non-ammo trait. Crossbow with Scrounger/Conservative and 50% base more ammo is already enough to basically fully sustain you and kill all the specials and elites you may want. Handgun has enough with Conservative + just 10% ammo pouches to sustain you. This is all on top of providing ammo for your team as well.

Keep in mind that there’s regular ammo drops littered throughout all the maps as well.