Balance/idea's for classes

[Imperator1]

This will be a long read so you are warned

First, this are just idea’s. Second i firmly believe in bringing everything on the same level and then try to smooth things out. Third, i removed or merged some filler talents to enhanche build options.
Goodluck reading !

General:

Stims work 30% longer 10% more stimms on map.
Survivalist is always active, changed to 2% from 1% removed from veteran. Cooldown remains the same
Reduced ammo on map to compensate.
Coherency thougnes regen is always active when in coherency
blitzes scale with difficulty, per difficulty X%
All nodes before Blitz, Aura, abillity and keystone are merged to a single point.
Elites and disablers get per difficulty X increased health and damage but have an X reduced spawn rate. ( to prevent server lag )

Veteran:

Talents:

One in motion: Merged with volley fire. → Trooper.
Close order drill: Merged with Charismatic → Team leader
Longshot: Merged with volley adept → Sharpshooter.
Get back in the fight: Now also restores all thougness but the cooldown is increased to 60 sec
Catch a breath: Range decreased from 8 meters to 4 meters
Grenade tinkerr: Now also increases Krak grenade radius. Radius increased from 25%
to 50% Smoke also stuns now.
serated blade: Switched places with grenadier
Grenadier: Increased from +1 to +2
serated blade: Changed to all bleed dots doing 25% more damage ?
agile engagement: Switched places with duck and dive
Kill zone: Decreased range from 8 meters to 4 meters
opening salvo: Changed from 10 crit change to 15 crit change
Field improvisation: Merged with twinned blast. twinted blast change of trigering now
Increased to 50% → Field improvisation
Leave no one behind: Also gives you 33% damage reduction
Determent: Merged with keep their heads down → Determent
Marksman: Switched to the place of determent
Deadshot: Changed from 0.25 while aiming to 0.50 while aiming. removed 025
per shot
New talent: Ammo Mule: every 10 min get a ammo crate
Born leader: Changed to always proc even when you have full thoughnes.
tactical awarenes: Changed from 6s on kill to 10s on kill

demolition team: Moved to the place of Survivalist
Competive urge: Changed form 2.5% change to proc to 5%
Reciprocity: Merged with desperado

6 less talents

Blitz: All charges increased to 3.

Aura:

Survivalist: Removed to base game
New: Demolition team: 7.5% change to restore blitz max 1 every 60 sec per elite kill.
Fire team: 20% more ranged damage
Close and kill: 20% more melee damage

Ability:

Executioners stance: Enhanched target priority included in base ability
Counter-fire and the bigger they are merged → Counter-fire
New: Double duration
Voice of command: Duty an honer: increased cooldown to 35s
Only in death does duty end: removed cooldown penalty
Infiltrate: Low profile, hunters resolve and suprise attack merged. → Tactical
attack
Overwatch: cooldown increase removed.

Keystone:

Marksmanfocus: while walking you also don’t lose stacks.
Focus target: Focussed fire changed to +2% damage per stack.
Redirect fire changed from 1.5% to 2%
Weapon specialist: Duration increased by 5s

Zealot:

Talents:

Sustained assault: Switched places with Disdain.
Bleed for the Emperor: Merged with Restoring faith → Faith in the Emperor
The voice of terra: Merged with sainted gunslinger → The voice of terra
Second wind: Merged with dance of death → Dance of death
Blood redemtion: Merged with scourge → Blood redemtion
Fortidude in fellowship: Merged with Shield of contempt → Shield of contempt
Purge the unclean: Moved to the place of shield of contempt
Duelist: Changed from 50% to 25%
Desperation: Changed from 20% for 3s to 10%
Holy revenant: Merged with until death → Until death
Unrementing: Merged with swift certainty → Swift certainty
Hammer of faith: now also has 30% cleave
Grievious wounds: changed to 50% stagger on weakspot and backstap hit
The masters retribution: Now also frees you off nets. Cooldown increased to 15s.
Invocation of death: Decreased to 150% cooldown from 200%
Faith’s fortitude: Increased to 3 wounds
Martyr’s purpose: Now increases cooldown per wound 5%
New talent: Scavenger: every 60 sec replenish 1 grenade or 4 knives.

6 less talents

Blitz: Increased charges to 4. Knives unchanged.

Aura’s:

Benediction: Unchanged
Beacon of purity: Changed to heal all corruption (and heal 1 health?).
Loner: Changed to always be in atleast 2 coherencie to a max of 6.
(with the changes to coherencie this will be solid )

Abilty’s: No changes.

Keystones:

Blazing piety: Infectious zeal chaned to 100%.
Martydom: Added: for every wound add 8% thoughnes.

Psycker:

Quittude: Merged with Warp expenditure.
Soulstealer: Changed to 7% down from 7.5%
Mettle: Changed to 4.5% down from 5%
Wildfire: Changed to all enemy’s instead of each. Souldrinker Merged with Wildfire
Psykinetic aura: Swapped places with Seer’s presence.
Channeld force: Swapped places with Perilous assault
Unlucky for some: Merged with Puppet master.
Empyric resolve: Removed thoughness penalty.
True aim: No longer overides normal crits

3 less talents

Blitz:

Brain Rupture: Decrease charge time by 25%
Kinetic flayer:Changed to 25% change and 10s cooldown
Smite: No changes.
Assail: Recharge speed increased by 15%

Aura’s:

Kinectic presence: 10% from 7.5%
Seer’s presence: Changed to Psyckinetic’s aura.
Prescience: 10% from 5%

Ability’s: No changes

Keystones:

Disrupt destiny: perfectionism swapped with purloin providense.

Ogryn:

Talents:

Furious: Merged with the best defense. → The best defense.
The best defense: Changed to 30% from 20%
Towering presense: Merged with lynchpin
Smash’em: Changed to 30% from 20%
Slam: Changed to +20 heavie attack speed.
Chrunch: Changed to heavie attack, instead of fully charged heavie attack.
Hard knocks: Changed to 5% max 5 stacks last 15s. From 1% 25 stacks last 10s.
Big boom: Changed to 35% from 27.5%
Ammo stash: Changed to 35% from 25%
Dominate: Changed to +10% rending
Bruiser: Moved to Coward culling. Applies also to team.
Won’t give in: Removed distance penalty.
Pacemaker: Merged with Reloaded and ready. → Reloaded and ready.
Unstopable momentum: Changed to 20% toughnes on ranged kill.
Massacre: +25% dots
New talent: Protect lil uns: Every 10 min get a medkit

3 less talents

Blitz:

Big friendly rock: Extra node: Reinforced Rock, double damage.
Extra node: Rock to da face, works like zealot knives.
Bombs away: Extra node: More Bombs, +1 grenade count.
Extra node: Kill them all, double grenades in bombs away
Frag Bomb: Extra node: More Bombs, +1 grenade count
Extra node: Desperate, 50% more damage.

Ability’s: No changes.

Aura:

Bonebreaker’s aura: 10% melee damage instead of only heavie melee damage.
Stay close: Changed to 30% from 25%.
Coward culling: Replaced with Bruiser.

Keystones:

Heavie hitter: Just getting started: 3% attack speed per stack
Unstopable: 25% increased thoughnes per stack
Brutish momentum: Increased stacks to 8

Burst Limiter override: Changed to 15% from 8%
More burst limiter overide’s: Changed to 35% from 12%

You made it! thanks for reading and i would like to hear your feedback/idea’s

[Cosmophase]

This reminds me of when I first started at my job and I was optimistic until I worked there for a year and realized the entire upper management has their head up their a** so I just come into work and do my job and go home.

Same thing with Darktide - first time I started this game, I had all these cool ideas because I thought the dev’s might care and they MIGHT realize they have the next left 4 dead on their hands. Over the course of a year, actually a few years - we were introduced to the cold, hard truth - they do not care what we think, they do not care what we want, and they sure as heck do not want to work harder.

I appreciate you writing all that up and I am sure if you were talking to a company that actually cared about feedback from the playerbase, you might get a response. But you are talking to a company where the entire playerbase hated weaves in v2 and yet they somehow brought over a worse version into this game. Take those good ideas/intellect and use them on people/things that deserve it

[MixedLetters]

Most I’m sure won’t get through all this, so figured I’d do my best to do so (given I’m a ‘massive post’ creator myself). Figured I’d preface this by saying if I don’t bring it up, it means I give a ‘cudos/thumbs up’ to the idea and either think it would be fine or even very good. But, a chunk of these seem like ‘low tier changes’ as well, and as someone who runs around in Auric+, some of these seem a bit to a LOT overtuned xD.

Survivalist being a ‘full on’ passive I think would be alright, but I’m a bit back and forth on it. I think if it is a none coherency passive, leaving it at 1% would have to be the play, as while the idea that ‘everyone is scavenging’ is good, the act of having to actually go and find ammo I think should still be in the game, and after running around in Havoc/utilizing survivalist myself, you can very easily just ignore ammo already with how it currently functions, let along making it not coherency and doubling it. (not to mention with a lot of your other changes, makes it seem very much like you’d prefer ammo just be infinite, which I don’t think is how this game is built to be. Its a resource, meant to be used when you have it, and scrounged for when you don’t, not just something you always have access to without effort xD).

Blitzes already pretty much do perfectly fine in all difficulties, Shredders/Assail/Immolation clears, Stun/smite stuns, Krak/Enhanced Head pop deals with armor, Knives 1 shot specials to the head, etc etc. Some are a bit lack luster, but I see no reason they need any form of ‘difficulty scaling’. They all do their jobs very well all the way through auric, hell most even still do well in high havoc. Just a matter of placing them right and ‘enhancing’ them should that option be open.

I feel Disabler spawns should be capped for sure, Elites I’m not so sure. If this event has taught me anything it’s that dealing with a raft of super tough enemies is euphoric, and I don’t feel like dropping them is needed. Maybe drop the gunner swarms from 10 down to 5 or so given their most recent buff, but I feel that’s all that would be needed. (highly recommend at least double gunner resist if that’s the main reason for this change).

Get Back in the Fight change, broken as all hell, that’s an extra shout/invis for breathing that ALSO makes you a movement god for 6s. I do think it should restore toughness (like maybe 10-20%), but going from nothing to ‘instantly back to full above Iron Will range’ is supremely broken on a random off shoot talent node, especially with the level of toughness a vet can have.

Serated Blade, I’d just shift this to 2 bleed per hit, and probably not change it’s place with Grenadier as that talent is half the reason to pic invis, and losing ‘invis + krak’ synergy I feel would make VoC that much more ubiquitous. More bleed = more damage, that and with it being on melee you’re more than likely buffing it even more with the blessings you proc too, so just having you get past the ‘exponential curve’ threshold faster I think is enough.

Field Improvisation, feel this doesn’t need that merge, I’d instead merge it with Grenade tinker for specifically Kraks and Frags. Gives that much much more of a nad upgrade while also still making it an even choice between upgraded kits and blitz cooldown (or one can still pick both).

Ammo Mule, entirely busted, that’s up to 3 (or even more) free ammo crates on top of the guaranteed 2 located on the map. If anything, I’d make this ‘start with an ammo crate’, and that would be good enough if this is what you are wanting. Search for the other twoooo!

tactical awareness: already the veterans most busted talent and you want to BUFF it? XD my guy this thing already cycles VoC and ES with ease, ESPECIALLy on higher difficulties, it does not need a buff. TBH I’d say most would agree a nerf is in order (alla making it give % regen like LoD on zealot now does), but if nothing else it should stay the same NOT get buffed. You need 3 specialist kills to keep the buff from VoC active permanently, per 15 seconds, this does not need a change XD.

Reciprocity and Desperado are also some of the most ‘for free best in class’ talents that Vet has, they do not need to be merged.

Fire team and Close and Kill don’t need THAT much damage. I’d cap it at 10%, 20% on an aura with no activation critera is absolutely bonkers.

ES doesn’t need a doubled duration, pic your shots and you’ll easily drop anything in 3 seconds flat. And with it now being a 30 second base cooldown, the other changes you added to it would make it more than fine.

Sustained assault swap, don’t think that makes sense. Left tree is meant for hard big hits, if anything I’d swap sustained assault with Backstabber (to make the starting part of the tree more ‘anyone can click on the first nodes’ while still having backstabber readily accessible for the builds that need it, verses just putting a random tax node in the backstab tree for no reason)

Faith in the Emperor feels a bit busted given how I’ve used this combo before to great effect for tank builds, and feel the ‘talent tax’ is warrented, but at the same time, it would be neat.

Second wind does not need to be merged with Dance of death, both talents already are some of the greatest Zealot has, combining them for one talent point just makes them forever unkillable. looks at my dueling sword build that is unkillable with both talents equipped

Scavenger, I don’t thinkkkk Zealots should have access to resupply without effort, but infinite immolation grenades does sound fun…maybe make it something like 90 seconds? to show that ‘they aren’t as good at it’, especially given their grenades are a LOT higher impact than Veterans.

If Scavanger is added as a node, do not need to increase grenade amount, 3 is way more than fine even right now.

Beacon, either it heals past wounds OR also heals health, should not do both (it’s already REALLY strong, but I do admit it would be nice if the tree it was in [wound zealot] actually got a benefit XD)

Wildfire, pretty sure ‘each’ is just saying what you want it to say, it goes on every enemy around it, just a tooltip problem. the merge is cool/I like though.

Empyric resolve, pretty sure they put the penalty there cause that kind of effect for smite specifically needs to have some form of draw back. I’d say reduce it to 25% at the most, given it’s basically only used for smite/surge staff anyway.

Unstoppable Momentum, that, I, what? shoot 5 poxwalkers get 100% toughness? that’s a bit much I’d say given it’s at range XD Especially given they already are regening 5% per second with most of their ranged options now. I’d say 5-10% at most, keep the movement speed for fun.

Protect lil uns I feel a bit more ok with verses the ammo crate, given big mans health pool and how they tend to eat most to all of it. I’d say ‘start with a medkit, medkits heal you for twice the amount’ (i.e for every 1 point they expend healing you they heal 2, so 100 health from the medkit is 200 health for you, leaving 100 let for your lil uns still).

Rock already 1 shots most things its meant to via it’s own unique modifier, I’d probably if anything give it an extra node that gives it 50% rending (As I’m sure you mainly want it to do damage to armor, of which it inherently does not do).

For the second node, I’d say also ‘get a rock after killing an elite’ in specific, verses melee killing an elite/specialist (infinite rocks for dropping 1 shotting specials I don’t think makes to much sense given how you just need to body shot with them verses headshot with a knife, and with the above change having a constant stream of them on top of their innate cooldown seems like a bit much).

I’d love bombs away, but the thing already hard lags the servers XD don’t think it can handle it, but if they ever fix that then sure!

Frag Bomb already one shots everything that doesn’t have armor within it’s radius, does not need more damage, espeically if you can carry 2 with an extra point (thus getting 2 from pick ups as well).

Anndd that’s all the notes I got, as stated above but will re-iterate, if you don’t see it here I like the change! XD It’s just easier/quicker to point out the few faults verses saying ‘yes yes yes yes’ over and over. Hope my reasoning makes sense to you though! And overall good post!

[Imperator1]

Thanks for the response, ill have to look at everything you said but want to say this in the meantime.

I merged alot of talent to open up build options. Many talents (can feel) are/fillers.
I also changed some more with the intend of there beeing more than only Melee or ranged focus or some nodes are 2 of the same but slightly different or both beeing needed to make the other good ( towering presence for example)
So in short, Yeah some are not balanced and would need tuning.

The intend with ammo was so that if you do a pub and you have for example one vet, 1 gunlugger and a gunpsycker you are bassicly fighting for ammo on the map. (Pre mades is a different story ofcourse) nobody likes it when they have grinded for x weapon only to use it Sometimes to almost not. A gunlugger should be able to do what he is meant to do without the party getting angry.
Yes this means alot has to be rebalanced, but in defense of this, Melee cant be removed, has unlimited uses and as of now balance wise is the most op version to play. You can block etc which you cannot with ranged. It would still need some balance.

With the “new talents” ia medkit and ammo crate the intend was to give unique talents. Ogryn mainly does not have a unique gimmick for the team so to speak. One at the start of the level seems also Nice.

Alot isnt really balanced, my fault. my hope was to get some feedback on things i have less knowlegde about and at the same time give a general idea how to give more options to players. Thanks !