Arbities and potential death to the veteran

So, i’ve been watching arbites gameplay, i liked the look of normal gameplay of the class, it talent tree, with only auras being kinda mid, talents in general strong, keystones great, ultimates too, unlike my 1st bad impression on them and class in general.(Thanks fatshark for that).

One kinda weird thing i noticed is that dog just sits near arbitrator when he is captured and waiting for rescue, I think dog should follow other teammates, but not their commands if arbitrator dies, it is weird to see it despawn and sit next to him waiting for someone to save him.

Over all looks very strong, i already forsee million posts about nerfing it, but that’s not what i wanna talk about here.

I think the blitzes, the keystones of this class are significantly or completely invalidate existence of Veteran in general, why? Few reasons:

  1. Keystone to grenade regen, not to mention other bonuses, with better grenades in general, especially impact grenade, it looks very strong, arbiter can have up to 5 of them, while they function as the mix of krak grenade and frag grenade, they do decent damage to all enemies, do it instantly, unlike wortheless krak grenade, also offer good stagger.
    Shredders still good, still can regen more and probably thanks to bleed, will do more damage, but overall every blitz that arbities has is better than krak and smokes.

What can a smoke do in tight quarters when ranged enemies not a threat anyway? Can only bring harm by view obstruction, while dog chrage and shock mine can deal damage and stun/stagger.

Dog can be sent at any distance basically, so with enough patience it can go and kill all ranged enemies, from which smokes supposed to protect. And if said enemies grouped, dog can shock them all.

  1. Terminus warrant looks like a better variant of the vet’s best keystone: weapon specialist. It requiers killing enemies to gain stack/stacks of it’s bonusses, while terminus one just demands to hit enemy. It subtalents also give attack speed and many other various bonusses, all look useful, while WS has useless nodes like one more reload speed, to take which you need take talent node that can remove reload completely.
    So a this point, the best weapon specialist can do, is have no reload on some weapons, one which - plasma, will be nerfed.
  2. Generally all 3 ultimates are better than two of the three that vet got, keystones all better, auras better with one exception.

Yes, vet still keeps shout and survivalist, which are great and survivalist is a better aura than anything that arbities offers, but are they enough to take in havoc vet instead of arbitrator? Unlikely and if vet goes to havoc without shout and survivalist, then he is inferior to arbitrators in almost every way possible.

Veteran got such wondreful features as: high stamina regen delay, executioner stance stopping working in pox gas, smokes with no mod from nexus, is more of a hinderance to all players, than help and even with mod from nexus, smokes placing in talent tree is bad and point taxing for taking shout and survivalist.

On top of all that arbities obviosly better melee class, than veteran, in melee oriented game. with many strong talents to choose from, some similar to the ones veteran has, like 20% damage to ogryn enemies, ammo capacity node with 25% more ammo, instead of 30% that veteran has, not a huge difference.

Access to strong ranged weapons, aside from his own, like bolter, autoguns, revolvers, double barrel shotgun. Melee options a bit more limited, but many will be more potent than if they are used on veteran, like regular shock maul and as if it wasn’t enough, they added crusher to arbites, which will 100% have good synergy with class relying on impact.

Solution to his is: veteran rework ASAP.

Besides veteran i think something may happen with already not very popular gun psyker build, which will still in theory will do more damage, but it still will have lower survivability than arbitrator, whose left keystone looks extremely strong, both on paper and in gameplay footage all can now go and watc. It is very similar to psykers with disrupt destiny.

A little UPD: well it seems middle keystone for new class not better and not even as good as weapons specialist, but overall my opinion stays the same.

7 Likes

Dey tuk ur jerb?

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Reminds me of that time when the Ogryn rework was supposed to be a nerf that would make him weaker.

Maybe wait until the class actually come out before you judge.

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I honestly enjoy playing the class in Havoc 40 most people consider weak, and performing better than 90% of Havoc veterans I see on my team (I trust @Antilus though). That’s empowering.

Veteran can kill Rinda Karnak in Havoc 40 in two bolter clips btw, if you recoil control headshot her point blank, after her shield goes down. That’s damage comparable to Thunder Hammer.

At this point I only want three things from the devs for Vet:

  1. Remove smoke grenades or give them major teamwide buffs when you’re standing in the smoke cloud (toughness regen, crit etc). Never seen a single good Veteran using these. Good vets kill shooters, not obscure them from the team.

  2. Rework auras which are not Survivalist into something useful.

  3. Buff Exe Stance and Stealth, but nerf VOC sligthly by increasing its cooldown.

Stealth nowadays is a weaker version of VOC and a glorified rescue tool, which is not really needed when playing with good players. The 2nd charge stealth node should be basekit, since for a much stronger and versatile VOC you only need 2 points, but for weaker Stealth you need 3. The node that provides damage buff when coming out of stealth should also last longer to make it middleground between having VOC and Exe Stance. Right now stealth provides only utility, some survavibility, and no damage (since cooldown is too high to spam it for damage buffs).

Exe Stance should increase toughness regen the longer you maintain it, rewarding players who can refresh the cooldown without losing the streak so to speak. Veteran doesn’t need the damage, they need survavibility in melee. Or give it its autoreload back.

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every class makes playing veteran worthless, vet die hards have been in it only for the fashion since patch 13

arbites release won’t change a damn thing

i’m happy that they didn’t made arbites worthless in the first place, on paper it looks very strong, and worth buying

that is the most important thing of this update

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Veteran is my most played class, i did my 1st H40 as veteran, but you are right, i also wanted to write, that at this point any class can be better than veteran in melee. I am also glad that new class is not worthless.

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Yes, i saw that, but not on 40.

Yes, also make insivisble for other players, there’s new mod that do this, fatshark don’t even need to do much.

I also want that, but it would be really hard to topple survivalist.

I would remove stealth completely, if we look at right tree in general it looks like more melee-ranged combo oriented, so i would put some ability that would also work towards melee improvement and combo with ranged attacks, but since new class got such thing, i guess it is not an option anymore.

Good ideas, i would also make it work in pox gas, it works through walls, but can’t work with gas? Why?

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Who could have imagined that the “watch and learn” casually mentioned by the veteran back then actually enabled Arbits and ogryn to acquire the veteran’s skills

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Arbites 7, 25 toughness just looks better as passives and of course they are great picks / mandatory

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Could you imagine if veteran had 14 less stat nodes and could pick actual talents instead?

Or zealot 11 less.

Sheesh, the possibilities

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Vet and Zealot both have lots of garbage nodes and stuff, but they have both really incredibly powerful nodes and access to great weapons. I don’t buy into this whole vet is too weak. It’s rather vets and zealots are too one dimensional, because they have so many must take nodes competing with weak nodes.

But maybe in a couple of months we feel the same about Arbites.

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Vet and zealot are not one-dimensional.

Just one of their dimensions is clearly better than others.

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Look I’m not Doom and Gloom about Veteran’s tree, it’s just, well, like, I mean

You start to wonder what a veteran tree made in 2025 would look like

Fatshark put the ammo talent above the blitzes in Veteran’s tree and move Onslaught to the left branch.

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I saw the gameplay footage, Vet will never die! Im on the fence If I even want the class now considering the melee isnt my jam…but Ill give it a go for the sake of voice lines.

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And on top of that, the keystones are BEYOND lame.

There’s very little on the veteran’s tree that encourages stat exploration because everything is a question of “can I afford not to have this node?” not “oh, I wonder if this one would be fun”.

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That’s exactly how i think when i tweak or make builds on veteran and usual answer is no.

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Ill just put in my 2 cents:

Vet is not weak, even in havoc. But he is not where i want him to be as a class. With inflexible build trees and basically a monobuild playstyle unless you’re atypically good at the game.

Don’t go thinking Vet is some forgotten class though. Its not gone well but hes been reworked more than any other class since patch 13. He just got a buffed class specific weapon this patch (lucius).

I want to see him improved, especially in the ranged focused playstyle hes been missing since patch 12. Arbites really doesn’t invalidate him and if anything synergizes with vet nicely. Nuncio benefits ranged gameplay, and so does having a dependable front line.

10 Likes

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