The special “shell” makes even less sense. Top is ADS, Bottom is hip-fire, same distance for both. The only purpose for this round is to initiate with because it loads entirely too slowly to use as a self-defense/close quarters shell. I am a veteran, I initiate a group of enemies large enough to justify this round with a grenade.
Lose the pattern difference between hip-fire and ADS. Not only does it make no sense logically, but it throws consistency out the window. I think a pattern somewhere between the current hip-fire / ADS patterns would be ideal.
The difference between hip-firing and aiming down sights should be recoil control and refire rate for balance reasons, that way there’s a purpose to both modes.
Turn the special shell into a slug to be able to deal with long distance enemies. Poor armor penetration, but huge stagger to make up.
Branch this pattern out into more versions:
MKII: Wider Spread, More Stagger. Special Shell is a Dragon’s Breath or Explosive Round.
MKV: Narrow Spread, Less Stagger. Special Shell is a Flechette Round that pierces unarmored enemies.
In conclusion, I love this weapon, but see very little reason to use it over a Braced Autogun considering both weapons use up ammo quickly.
I like the difference in spread between hipfire and ADS - logic be damned, it lets the weapon be far more versatile than it otherwise would be, and doesn’t gimp your special sniping ability like Braced Autoguns.
Why rate of fire should change when you ADS is just as illogical as the spread changing, so pick your poison. Even with the excuse of it being a space-SPAS-12, the only time the pump gets used is to rechamber specialist low-pressure rounds, not full-power buckshot like we already use.
No need to have the special do that when the current ADS already does it. You can pick Snipers off from disgustingly long range. Plus the shotgun already deals massive stagger by default, it can deck a Mauler or a Crusher with just a few shots. Why waste the special on something it can already do?
You’re trying to use the shotgun for horde clear. That’s not really the intent of the Lawbringer, but the special helps compensate for that. Also do remember not everyone is a Veteran, just because your grenade can do that doesn’t mean a Zealot can’t, or if you don’t happen to have one.
Aside from higher damage, only things it could really use are more ammo, and more ammo gained back from Veteran’s Scavenger Hunt talent (which benefits everyone else too, if they happen to be using the shotgun).
It makes infinitely more sense for braced autoguns to work that way as they stream their shots instead of blasting them out all at once like a shotgun does. I understand where you’re coming from, but autoguns are simply better for the role.
I have no issues hitting far away opponents with braced autoguns, the first few shots are always dead center anyways.
It’s a pump action shotgun, the fire rate is entirely dependent on the user, not internal mechanics. It’s more of a space Winchester 1897 than a SPAS-12 since it looks like it’s being slam fired and the bolt is exposed.
Because it doesn’t make sense, Timmy. We went over this. I understand that gameplay trumps all, but rest assured it can be achieved without ruining our suspension of disbelief.
The Shotgun is for shooter clear at close to mid range. Zealot is irrelevant since ranged is their secondary weapon. I don’t see any melee weapons being balanced for the Zealot, in fact, the power sword is being nerfed because the Zealot can’t keep up, so there goes your concern out the window.
It doesn’t need higher damage, it needs more consistency.
I own enough firearms to outfit a small somali warband and have plenty of shotguns, this game is one of the only ones that comes close to making a shotgun feel like a shotgun so I’m providing feedback while keeping game balance/lore in mind.
It’s semi-automatic, not pump action. At no point between shots does the user pull back on the pump. That leads into this:
Because your suggestion doesn’t make sense either with the above in mind. Pay more attention.
That’s not an excuse to just completely ignore Zealot’s ranged weapon. You’re deliberately ignoring use case scenarios because they don’t fit your playstyle, which is ridiculous.
This is irrelevant. I don’t get why people think they have authority on a subject matter just because they happen to do/have something in real life.
I agree that it is underpowered, but disagree with your solution. The mechanics of the gun are well designed imo. We finally have a shotgun with identity, and the things that differentiate it actually make sense.
Hipfire at close range and the wider spread is more forgiving of inaccuracy and flick shots.
ADS at long range and the tighter spread allows for greater precision.
Special shell adds a third, distinct piece of utility for wave clear.
I would advocate changing values, not mechanics. Tighten the spread on ADS. Increase damage per pellet on the special attack. Increase ammo reserve or reload speed.
Which is dumb because the Winchester slam fire is infinitely cooler.
I don’t use shotguns on my Zealot because they’re outclassed by the braced autoguns. I only use them on Veteran because extending volley fire by reloading one shot is infinitely faster than reloading a whole magazine.
I’m offering some feedback on how to make the shotgun feel more shotgun based on my experience with various pump, semi, and break actions.
DT’s shotty is fun and unique in a grimdark setting… why is that a bad thing? I do kinda wish the special shell had a little more damage per pellet, make it a nice “sweeper” for that initial front of enemies, especially with zealot. Would that be OP? F yeah it would, and it would be awesome.
I love that some weapons are just hilariously OP, and it makes sense from gameplay and in-lore. It’s part of the game’s charm and fun. I don’t want everything to feel samey like in CoD
Everyone threw a fit that the bolter would chamber a round each time it was pulled out, even if the gun already had a round in the chamber, and they changed it.
It’s not a bad thing, it simply doesn’t make sense from either an in-universe or realistic stand point.
Again, if we’re throwing logic and common sense out the door, turn the shotgun into a confetti gun that causes enemies to burst into treats like a piñata.
That all sounds like “fun” but doesn’t make much sense, does it?
How would my suggestions make the shotgun not fun…?
I think all enemies come apart in half if you do enough damage. It really satisfying swinging around the Ogryn’s cleavers/knifes and watching some poor bastard get split in half.
