Arbites, Fatshark, and the actual "good" weapons

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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I’ve been skipping around through different videos and streams put out by people who have the ability to use the Arbites currently, and I noticed a worrying trend.

Unless they specifically were attempting to show off a particular weapon, functionally every single one of them has been running the regular Shock Maul and the Bolter. And more than a few have said the regular Shock Maul (not the Arbites one) is the best weapon the class has, and while none have (to my knowledge) outright said that the Bolter is the best ranged weapon choice… They’re all using it over the Arbites Shotguns.

And I know why that is after watching the footage, and had one of them explain why the Arbites Shock Maul is inferior. The regular Shock Maul has better overheads, and stun capacity, but more importantly: it has Skullcrusher as a blessing. Currently, almost every single Ogryn is running Skullcrusher, which means that although the base damage of the Arbites Shock Maul is impressive it is left behind the moment that Skullcrusher stacks start falling into place, and everyone is aware that the Bully Club using Ogryns (functionally all of them) now have a friend who will push the damage up by another 40%. The end result is that the Arbites Shock Maul will never approach best in slot consideration.

Several have also talked about how the shields (both versions) are meh, for different reasons. Defensively they are good (a sentiment I have also heard and seen repeatedly) but that seems to be about the only thing they’re good at. The mixture of wonky move sets, and mostly bad blessings hurts their damage immensely.

Needless to say, I am not particularly enthused by this result. But I can live with it.

However, what really gets my goat is that the Bolter just bodies every single other ranged weapon the Arbites has. The two Arbites Shotguns are already inferior to the Zarona, which I wasn’t particularly happy to see. But worse, the Bolter is so vastly more effective than any of the shotguns (especially since it paves over the Arbites biggest weakness [again, another sentiment shared by basically everyone], Monstrosities) that no one is using the shotguns unless they’re just messing around. When it comes time to “lock in”, they’ll stop futzing with any other ranged weapon and pick the Bolter. And even when they are messing around with things that aren’t the Bolter, they still are taking the regular Shock Maul to make up for the fact that they are using a weapon that isn’t best in slot.

I have no hope that anything will be done to the Bolter because the class truly does lack for boss killing potential, but for the love of God, Fatshark, can you please do something to make the weapons this class is supposed to be known for actually worth consideration? It’s not a great sign when the people who are supposed to be convincing us to buy the class just aren’t using the weapons you made for the class because they’re saying the quiet part loud.

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Please calm down. It’s way too early to be making any judgments about the Arbites.

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seen 3 or 4, they all used shotgun and a little bit of shot pistol shield. Most used maul and shield for melee, shotgun +shield/maul seemed to be the consensus for best of their weapons to me.

but honestly given how this or rather the hysterical vocal neurotic sub set of this community sprays it all over everything any time balance requires anything be nerfered id much rather they do release in a weak state.

at least wont have to listen to as much whining about p2w then

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Bolter is the best weapon in the game so its not worrying to me, for the melee we’ll see, you may be right

hes got a busted talent tree so maybe he can work with off meta melees just fine

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People will favour anti-armour in this game as soft unarmoured horde poses much less threat.

Arbites has lots of bonuses tied to causing stagger. So really favours maul to build stacks from causing stagger quicker.

Agni Shock Maul with Skullcrusher and Opportunist will be strong choice for Anti-Armour

They’re choosing bolter for quickdraw sniping elites at longer range and same time good against armour. Shotguns better at close range, faster followup shots, but then that will be job for maul to be honest.

Arbites was never meant to be better, just different. Some will stick to it or back to their main but enjoyed the ride for something different for a while.

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we’ve been through this people said the same thing about ogryn rework.. too weak… not enough toughness dr etc
I do agree the breakpoints in thr 7:30 gameplay seemed a bit low BUT
we dont know if the damage numbers are shipping
we dont know what they were building on weapon/talents its entirely realistic that they had some journalist play with an infected/specialist maul
lets just wait for the update to release first

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You realize a lot of people are literally streaming with the class on Twitch every day, right? And uploading videos as well. Heck, at least two YouTubers have put up the full damage stats of the weapons, lol.

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OP isnt wrong, gameplay didnt look bad or weak.
But try comparing that current meta gameplay.

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It’s very obvious a balancing decision to not include Skullcrusher on any Arbite exclusive weapon. Skullcrusher’s damage increase randomly got buffed to a whopping +80% while staggered sometime ago and pretty much no one has noticed till now (+10% damage per stack, max 8, 1-4 stacks applied per hit). Arbrites throw around stagger like crazy and even has a talent that makes everything always considered to be in a stagger state. It would’ve basically be a permanent or near permanent +80% damage buff in melee for the class.

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The issue is that they still get it. On two weapons. Just not the Arbites specific weapons, thus making them largely irrelevant or very hard to justify bringing. Do you see the problem? If no Arbites weapons (class specific or otherwise) had it, then you could make arguments for their weapons since the playing field is a good bit more even.

The consequence of handing the Arbites the regular Shock Maul is that no one with a brain will take the Arbites one since the regular Shock Maul does overheads easier, and the push-special is extremely effective on top of getting Skullcrusher. I do not want to use the Not-Arbites Shock Maul but when something like this happens it creates a problem where you feel pressed to take it, especially at higher difficulties where you may need every advantage.

Similarly, they made a class whose entire aesthetic is shotguns but then failed to consider what might happen if you the provided them with no means to directly reward Shotgun use (see: Vet and Stormtrooper), while at the same time filling in the biggest damage gap they have: monstrosities. There is already footage out there of hipfire builds for the Arbites killing regular (not weakened) BoN’s with one magazine from the Bolter.

That instantly makes me throw my hands up in the air. I will probably just try and use the Arbites Shock Maul in my melee slot because I can count on the Ogryn being so busted right now that it probably won’t matter, and for range I’ll just have to accept that I’ll need to use the Bolter.

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@Reginald Seems like you might be able to provide some clarity here?

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Ofcourse it’s how it will be on Havoc, because noone wants to deal with armored blobs.

As i said in another thread, remove crushers from havoc, and 90% of weapons will become vaible for an average joe.

Most of the weapons in this game are fine currently, they have pros and cons, niche usage, etc.

Why would you run shotgun and not bolter when they both use the same ammo type?

And the enemies, how the game is trying to kill you in spikes, and almost non existant attrition factor.

Gameplay is overall is in an absolutely horrible state now, cause the best way to play is to NOT to engage with the enemies, but delete them before they will start any animation or kite infinetely by ruinning away. Instead it should be that it’s a norm to fight crushers blob as it is a mini boss enounter kinda.

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There are vids with havoc 40 duo arbites runs where they don’t even bother to rescue the bots, and they were using Arbites weapons.
So, make your conclusions.

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But did they clear h40 in duo? 99% of pub runs, and even premade parties will lean towards 1,5 meta weapons. Weapons like DS that allows you to deal with armored enemies and kite a lot.

I hardly doubt shield+shoty revolver will be a common thing, spending time in reload animation after 2-3 kills? Wich is a shame, cause thematically it’s extremely cool weapon.

It’s like grenadier gauntlet for ogryn, why run it when you can spam rumbler.

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Could we please have a few hours to enjoy the new class, lore, and weapons before people start metaslaving and demanding Fatshark add Duelling Swords to the armor of the Mastiff?

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Nah, it’ll happen within the first week. For my part I’m looking forward to seeing how to use weapons I’ve not used in ages to good effect in Havoc 40 but the metaslaving is inevitable.

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Many also used shot pistol, shotgun, dog against bosses, showing high damage, depending on talents and weakspot hits.

And so what if shock maul is the best? There’s always will be something that is best and everything else is for entertament or special build. And it is not like arbites shock maul is too far behind from what i’ve seen, it would be meta if they had no regular shock maul.

In every aspect or just boss killing? From what i saw, shotgun horde clearing capabilities is great and one with long barrel, can deal with carapace at same level if not better than bolter.

Can you please give link where is it shown? i didn’t see this one.

They look strong enough to me for me to consider using them.

So far, only problem i have with new weapons is shields, i mean they do decent damage, but their animations, they lack visual impact.

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they are still streaming the BETA version not the official release hope this helps

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I have a better idea, make dog discharge shoot many DS 4 in a 360 direction.

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I’ll match the OP’s throwing his hands in the air, and raise it to, “Let’s start over, without any weapons shared between classes.”

The Old World fell not because the Skaven became competent - suddenly and utterly without precedent - but because of shared weapons. DT must not share WH Fantasy’s sad, shameful fate.

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