No, it’s completely subjective. Some people legitimately feel that macros of any kind are cheating. Many people use Spidey Sense and feel it addresses deficiencies with the game, while others consider it cheating. Personally, the only thing that steps completely into cheating to me that I have personally witnessed is alt+f4’ing to reconnect to a match (with or without a mod) to pop up after being downed.
I actually strongly, strongly disagree with this. The avenues they have to do this involve things like weapon swap or animation start up delays that add unnatural skill ceilings and usually make fluidity of play feel worse.
See DK 2h Hammer Slayer nerf in VT2 for reference.
The best solution would in fact be for the player base to follow an honour code and not use tools that obviously go against the spirit of the game.
And any macro that isn’t spamming M1 for your melee weapon very obviously falls outside the spirit of the game. Anyone who says otherwise is on a lethal dose of copium.
Anyway modding scene is regulating itself pretty well overall. In terms of people using their own macros, it’s pretty easy to spot, I’d recommend simply calling them out on it then blocking them if talking gets you nowhere.
@Badwin
I said most people. There’s always going to be ‘black and white’ people who won’t accept any shade of grey, and they’re usually safe to ignore because they live in la-la land.
What you strongly disagree with is poorly implemented mitigations, not the act of mitigating itself. If the mitigations don’t make the game feel worse (or have some other significant negative impact), there’s no problem with using said mitigations to prevent exploitation of game mechanics.
There’s already a mountain of such limitations built into the game (and literally every game ever) and most of them are accepted as necessary, even if there’s people who don’t like their exact implementation details.
A pointless sentiment to offer without examples. I struggle to think of way they could address it without at very least removing something that is cool tech when done manually.
One of the great joys of Tide combat is the fluidity, I really don’t know how you address macros without worsening fluidity in some way.
But again please share your solutions that don’t negatively affect other parts of the game.
No, my point is explicitly that everyone has their own threshold for cheese. Beyond thinking that alt-f4’ing to reconnect and pop back to life (which should be fixed at the root by FS imo) is cheating, I also do not personally use Spidey Sense. At one point I used Extended Weapon Customization to change scopes and a crosshair mod to change crosshairs, but I fell out of love with the idea of adjusting that part of my experience. I now prefer what I consider to be pretty close to vanilla. But I still steal hidden information that I think makes me a better teammate with Numeric UI and some other mods.
My point is that it’s all grey. And each person has their own limits, for what they themselves will use and what they will tolerate from others. And even some individuals will change their attitudes towards these things over time. I really don’t believe there is a consensus on what the “spirit of the game” should be, and if someone is cheesing beyond what I’m comfortable with I probably won’t ever see them again (maybe because I’ll block them).
Yes. What I’m saying is that for most people, that threshold hovers around the point at which something is considered outside the spirit of the game. You can clearly see the general community consensus of a particular feature by looking at the community reaction to it.
Games close off loopholes that allow play that’s outside the game’s spirit all the time, whether they’re videogames or IRL sports or whatever else.
That’s for the devs to decide. Ultimately this is all in their hands.
You don’t need to. That’s what the devs get paid the big bucks for
“I can’t imagine it, therefore it’s impossible” is the death of innovation.
True! And there are some things I really think should be addressed, like quell cancelling and alt-f4’ing. But it’s also kinda vague. Macros have been tacitly allowed through all the Tide games so far as I can tell. But, again, some people consider them not in the spirit of the game.
anyone looking for a challenging game probably refrains from using such macros. sure one can cancel manually, so a macro adds a consistency that just iisn’t possible manually.
Fair but I’m sure I don’t need to explain the inherent risks of forcing FS to try to remove macro abuse from the game, no guarantee that works out for the better.
There is risk in literally every change they make. The risk involved in this case is miniscule, particularly if it’s remediated quickly.
Anyone defending Psyker quell macros for left click is absolutely delusional. Optimized, Psykers can shoot x5 left clicks per second at a .2 ms or shorter ms latency, which is probably 3x faster than any Esports professional can execute for a period longer than 30 seconds. The pace of this is straight up twice as fast as the other FullAuto mods.
It absolutely needs looked at and normalized, if only for the fact it completely dwarves the capabilities of console players and non-mod users.
People hide behind all kinds of excuses and logical fallacies, often while contradicting themselves in the same topic, sometimes the same post.
If all else fails they fall back on “PvE sO wHO CaREs, the whole team benefits”
See last sentence above, “who cares” is a catchall.
You’re obsessing over mods like it’s some personal crusade, and honestly, it’s exhausting for everyone else who isn’t caught up in this paranoia. The only thing that matters is whether a mod falls within the devs’ established policy—that’s it. But you seem to think you have the authority to decide what’s acceptable, as if you’re in charge of drawing the line. Newsflash: that’s the developers’ role, not yours. This is like civilians crossing police tape to tell detectives how to handle a case. It’s unnecessary and frankly, a bit Karen-esque. Let the devs do their job, stay out of it, and give us all some peace finally.
I had to un-ignore just to read the rants piling u. Did you even read the only real dev post on discord?
Summary
Kudos to you for doing the right thing here and asking the community to weigh in.
So the definitive answer is that no we won’t have a strong opinion on this mod. Wether you consider it cheating or not wall hacks and other implementations are readily available outside of mods and we don’t act on those either. Doing so would mean implementing anti cheat and we right now deem anti cheat implementations to be too limiting for the modding community and since darktide isnt a competitive game there are no real upsides to anti cheat.
Sure some might claim unfair advantage but really you are benefiting your whole crew so who cares really… And if you are playing Darktide for the bragging points you would still be at the mercy of the communitys opinion of the mod and not ours(Fatshark).
As for the intended behavior of this the analysis that we went back and forth on it and didn’t clean up properly is probably a fair one
I’ll report this straight to the source of the weird behavior and try to get it sorted.
Here’s the juicy part for you:
FS washed their hands of it with the added cherry of “it’s PvE so who cares, you guys figure it out”
You wanna play with your BS cheats that’s fine, but don’t expect people to swallow your tripe, “you would still be at the mercy of the communitys opinion of the mod and not ours(Fatshark).”.
Spare me the faux indignation and “It’s FS’s Job1!11!”, again, FS said they don’t wanna deal with it and left it to us.
Keep making nonsensical excuses for blatant ~cheats and things infinitely close to them, all the while you see gems like “cheat mods ok, BUT you know what’s a real cheat? Alt-f4 bot cheeze!11!”, expect hypocrisy, lack of self-awareness and lack of empathy to be called out, you know, by the community.
Pro tip:
Zzz spare me with the strays, man. The “cheats” in question in this thread aren’t even a mod. They’re macros for a piece of external software, and there’s simply no way FS could eliminate them. Not even with EAC, I don’t think (since EAC doesn’t help with macros in VT2).
Yes, I believe rapid fire quell cancelling is game-breakingly OP and should be addressed by FS. And alt+F4-rezzing is too and should likewise be addressed by FS.
And again, what YOU consider cheat mods are not considered cheat mods by everyone. I don’t use it, but I don’t consider Spidey Sense a cheat. Other people have other opinions. Deal with it.
A puritan is never satisfied with cleaning only his own house. All houses must be cleaned.
I have a job that occupies the majority of my day and I come home to play Darktide to unwind. I typically play on malice or heresy and I currently have 2545.7 hours logged on steam. I don’t appreciate someone else dictating to me what I can and cannot play with just because they personally find it unpalatable.
I don’t use any of mods listed here (unless I overlooked some as I was skimming) but even if I used all of them, as long as they’re within FS’s TOS, which they evidently are, it’s none of your damn business what I play with.
And don’t give me that trash about “it’s impacting my gameplay”. Not directly it isn’t, no. It impacts your experience by having someone take all the kills, being really incompetent, or being generally obnoxious? That’s a trueism of any game you play with other people regardless of modding.
No matter how irksome you may find a teammate to be, you still have your agency. Which is what you would deny to others in pursuing this hate-boner.
I’m not at your skill level and frankly, I don’t aspire to be. I just want to have some fun for a few hours before I have to go back to being an adult.
Before you take out your pitch fork. He said in his old mod video that he uses full auto to prevent hand injuries because he does/did esports professionally. Might be a similar case here.
In the same video he says he doesn’t use custom weapons mod, because developers balance strong weapons by adding shitty scopes to them, so he considers this cheating. He doesn’t care though if anyone else does not consider it cheating and uses it.
So I guess, his opinion is a bit more nuanced then ‘cheating = good’.
I don’t care what you think of him, but if you call out a person like this, at least give the full picture.