Balance changes. This is already happend with toughness regeneration speed. With locked perks and blessings how are we supposed to adapt if balance and meta will change? People will find their items are not a godroll anymore and stuck with unwanted locked perks and blessings, once you Fatshark will change something.
18 Likes
You can beat every difficulty without godrolls and won´t even mention some changes unless there is a Crusher you suddenly need 3 instead of 2 hits to take down.
Also i highly doubt that they´ll make some majorchanges to the perks. If anything they´ll do some little buffs / nerfs, which can also make your weapon better.
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So what? How does it change that fact that one day balance changes can turn your best or favorite curio/weapon into one you don’t like and you can’t do anything with it?
Your doubt not an argument.
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its really not, a problem i mean
i really think your doing yourself a disservice here. Locking is just a way to make it take time and effort to attain a reward, the cost / effort of gettign something is a large part in making its getting feel rewarding.
in a game thats not designed to require improved loot and loot that at legendary and grey can have the same damage values isnt designed to have an impact in what is achievable. the loot is optional so it cant be a problem.
locks are a design choice , theres no wrong its just a choice.
you subjectively dont like it. and that is the reason you should cite , something along the lines of
“i really dont like this RNG system its very uneven , id much rather see a system where we take base items and spend resources to add stats/ perks /blessings in the order we want . doesnt have to be instant but i want to be able to steadily make progress towards the item i want not have to keep rolling and hope”
something like that people can get behind and understand that is a perfectly good reason to ask for a change or to atleast propose a re think.
If I’ve spend a hundred hours rolling curios using this bad crafting system, a patch note giving me the middle finger isn’t exactly encouraging player rentention…
For whatever players are left.
3 Likes
I’ve got 1,5k hours in V2, and after i was tired from different challenges and plenty of hours with “just play for fun” reason behind, collecting all red weapon was my selfmade achievement. So yet again, i don’t want that scenario when Fatshark make some balance change and my armory collection of perfect tools for killing heretics got ruined because of locks.
I very much agree, especially for the blessings.
Blessings in game are not of equal value, and I would welcome further balance patches down the line to make some of them viable (buffs and nerfs).
Without these we are bound to have the same meta trends as VT2 where 95% of endgame melee weapon traits are swift slaying (or opportunist).
With the lock, it will be very difficult to see these changes without alienating remaining players.
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If the only reason you’re using a weapon is its blessings are overpowered, then you should just have the default expectation that at some point your legs are gonna get swept.
If you’re using it because the weapon is great and a balanced version of the blessing would still be great, then you have little to worry about. The only potential problem is if a nerf goes too far. Like if the devs realize +75% power is too much (it really really is!) and decide to change it to +15% power (worse than other blessings) then that’s obviously a betrayal where Blessing/Perk lock is more of an issue.
But the solution in that case isn’t to change locking. The solution would be “don’t over-nerf or over-buff things!”
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I fully agree on this. Limbsplitter needs to be… somewhat not just a penalty (just an example).
I agree there is a real problem on curios… I think one perk locked for curios is really enough.
He can say he doubt that you will get what you want… and I doubt also.
We will surely get improvements, like VT2 had with red weapons, but it won’t be now!
And Darth_Angeal is right. You can beat any difficulty without godrolls. This is not a perk that will forbid you to get a good weapon, even it is has not 2 great perks.
So true. Also true about weapons, and that’s why I warned about the temptation to nerf too much the flamer…
So I fully agree with you. Better to see a slight nerf and, if not enough, nerf again, instead of nerfing a lot something and making it worst than anything else.
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Ok but we ran into this problem with Curios and the toughness regen nerf.
Sure you can easily replace a weapon but it’s far from fair when curios are involved. If they just decide to say “hey playerbase we are nerfing something like toughness regen or damage vs X” and you rolled your curios around that then you are out of luck.
Not to mention any crafting around curios is the same as weapons despite there being significantly more that can go wrong with them and far less control over how they roll.
Inb4 “curios don’t matter” because really if they didn’t then they wouldn’t have a place in the game.
3 Likes
It’s not only about weapon i use, i got a perfect tactical axe for crit bleed build, but i mostly play with eviscerator cuase it’s fun. But if something will be changed in balance, i don’t want just discard this axe and go grind again. I want to reroll it. Locks can be dangerous in that case, cause they can destroy items you crafted, you spend materials and time. But it’s not only about meta and minmaxing, it’s about collecting weapon as a purpose in game too, sure not everyone cares about it, but i don’t think i’m somehow unique in that.
As it was with my ogryn’s curios. When Fatshark changed toughnes regen speed i coudn’t even test it on my ogryn, i was interested how it’s synergized with his Lynchpin feat. My curios (was extremly unlucky with them on ogryn) was already locked for gunners damage resist rolls.
Locks maybe not a big problem if you main 1 or 2 characters, but when you play regulary all of them it is a problem.
Everything in a game is a design choice. It’s not like Fatshark discovered Darktides mechanics beneath the earth’s crust. This argument of yours is ridiculous.
“It’s just a choice, bro!”
2 Likes
And how should this happen?
If a perk is mandatory on any weapon, then it´ll either get nerfed from like 15% to 12% or will get replaced / reworked with something similar. This won´t make your weapon suddenly useless, if anything then it´s not stupidly broken anymore.
But your “fear” about something MAYBE happens far far in the future is?
And once closer or farer away in the future… the servers will shutdown and everything is gone anyway.
Also whoever have played some form of “live-service-game” within the last 10 years should know that hunting for broken stuff will probably wasted time at some day, if the devs do their job correctly and keep the game balanced.
But like i said above, it doesn´t mean that your weapon is suddenly useless. It´s just not as broken as before anymore.
Also arguing that way would mean, that devs should NEVER make changes to anything in a game. But that would need a 100% perfectly balanced game from begin, which will never be the case.
Changes can and will happen, no matter if its perks, traits, blessings, weapons itself based on stats or animations. Just look at dozens of other games where every new patch / DLC will increase the gearscore and suddenly everything you wear becomes useless. But 1000x more poeple enjoy playing MMORPG´s or real lootershooter with such standards than DT obviously.
It’s already happend with toughnes RS, luckily this time it was a buff, however locks still caused some problems as i said above. And considering unfinished state of the game, how many there are bugs, yeah it’s better to “fear” and to voice concerns incase of balance changes will continue rather than not to do it, because it’s can be a problem. Have you played V2? Do you know how devs changed some combat calculations with stagger mechanic and what disaster it caused? Probably 1/4 of playerbase were gone. It is already 2k online, so yeah, if you are saying “nothing bad will happen anymore” then you are short-sighted.
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this is broadly why i play early ganes like this, i like degenerate strategies and broken stuff. but for me getting something nerfed is almost kind of an achievement. like yuuuuup this was broken lol. it’s gonna get fixed, obviously, but it’s fun to play with until then. you can’t get too too broken up about it, you expect it. you hope the devs err on the side of making it too good rather than making it too poor, but if they do you move on to the next one.
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Unfortunately, there are a lot of smart people that don’t understand basic statistics, and they’ll continue supporting the “subjective game design choice” regardless of mathematical facts. Whether they buy lottery tickets from their local gas station every Friday or not, they don’t understand how prohibitive the current system is to any person who has a job/family/less than 168 hours a week to play the game per one good item (on one Character, on one Mark…). Even no-lifers can’t get what they want at this point. Your point is objectively true and important in a situation where a normal person can have their very few “meta” items (a.k.a., “viable” in this game since the majority of blessings/perks are bad) nerfed on a whim. Those items can take hundreds of hours of grinding/shop checking/weeklies to attain initially.
This issue is just exponentially symptomatic of the current gear progression/crafting system we currently have, but it’s still true. No matter how much people want to nitpick about “meta chasing” and “god rolls” and “do you even need that gear to beat hi-int-damnation.” How about increasing the difficulty ceiling (Twitch mode, Deeds, etc.), whilst also fixing the impossible barrier to entry for normal people so we don’t have a 5k dead game with only “try-hards” and “carebears?”
The only defense I can fathom for this system, is that some narcissistic people like the idea that they can play for thousands of hours and have respectively unattainable gear. That doesn’t promote teamwork nor a healthy community in the slightest.
5 Likes
Yup. On one hand: +7.5% power per hit stacking 5 times.
On the other: +5% power on heavy attacks scaling with time charged.
Or limbsplitter.
I agree but from a different perspective.
As a GaaS (assuming FS is still sticking to this plan), the core gameplay is essential to the longevity of the game, which means they need to be constantly breaking and tweaking things.
With the weapon perks right now, and every new class, new feat, new weapon to be released in the future (assuming there is a future), you can’t expect everything to stay the same or just simply better.
But with the time sink on a weapon right now, delivering a nerf patch will be unnecessarily painful, players will be pissed for their 20+ hours in-game wasted. FS will, again, gain more reputation as a game company that has no respect of player time. (that is, if no competitor shows up and players don’t eventually lose their trust in DT)
I’m not particularly for or against locking perks and blessings, I think their model for this so-called GaaS plan – prolonging player progression time with blunt, punishing RNG to extend the life cycle of the game – won’t work, they need something more subtle.
imo, DT’s core gameplay is eventually not about "build"s, it’s not a MMO, which is why a lot of ppl played it 2 month ago despite having no end-game progression at all.
btw, Bungie had a GDC session a few months ago, “From Box Products to Live Service”, maybe they should check it out.
I just think it’d be nice if swapping stuff around in any of their games wasn’t a huge hassle. It shouldn’t matter if stuff gets tweaked/nerfed/whatever, as long as testing and adjusting is made easy and accessible. DRG lets you tweak your weapons and perks at any time, and the only place Fatshark games are similar is in the talent trees. I’m actually surprised they even let you do that much, this seems like the kind of game to make talent selections something you’d have to buy a respec for once you’ve selected. What’s one more layer of garbage and obfuscation between the player and the fun at this point, anyway?
I’m just so sick of everything being a chore in this genre. At least DRG lets you use save editors to skip this nightmare, but if you didn’t know that was an option and you were new to that game all the additional weapons flooding the overclock pool would make you want to die. Imagine if Darktide started adding more weapons and blessings/perks and didn’t change anything about their slot machine shops, how much worse it’d be to try to get into down the line and find something you wanted. It’s all so disgusting and short-sighted.
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but yet you agreed.
how is it ridiculous to say a choice(subjective) thing cant be wrong (objective)?
My point is if you make up strawmen and argue the wrong point ie that a choice is wrong rather than being unpopular/unwanted then you do end up looking ridiculous and your point gets skipped.
ok bro!