It could be done but then you create a tie between play time and money. Balancing how much time someone is willing to invest in a cosmetic vs how much it needs to be increased to encourage purchasing shillings. Also if the means by which we earn shillings is to play the game, then offering a way to bypass that system is paying to skip game content. I guess its a slight distinction maybe I shouldn’t have an issue with it, but I do. I’d rather the buy cosmetics be buy only and the earned cosmetics be earned only but that’s just me.
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This is at least an reasonable argument. But I think and that’s like every post I did here before , just my opinion when i say i wouldn’t mind to get the option to buy shillings . The time money thing is something else.
Sure you can always calculate like this but you could also do that when there are skins you can directly buy with money and some you only can get with shillings, so for me not really valid when you think about it.
And here is to say I’m a real grinder as well I would buy some of the stuff just to support but one of the things I love about V2 is the grind I always did I mean I to get one of my DS3 characters to SL 802 I pressed over 200 new games all 100% runs with dlcs …no dupping no ganking …
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True, that is a reasonable assumption, and if any of the usual major puplishers were involved I’d also assume we’re headed towards Greed City.
Fatshark may not be perfect, but whale fishing is something I believe they wont do.
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At least in the past they said about V2 that buying chests would absolutely never happen. I’m really hoping that the same sentiment applies to standard cosmetics as well. And so far I never had a reason to not trust FS on that.
I hope you’re right
If you make an in-game currency, and by that, in game items purchaseable, there will always be an incentive to make the “free” way of getting these things more tedious and less fun, so people actually shill out the money. Look at all the modern games that sell you “XP booster” and “instant currency” and “level ups”: People buy these because playing the game regularly and getting them the usual way was made, by design, tedious as hell. If grinding this stuff was fun, people wouldnt by it. Any game that has the option to either grind or buy stuff is in HUGE danger of worsening the gameplay for anyone who doesnt buy. Publishers squeam around, saying “but its optional!” but never admit having worse, grindy, tedious, unfun game if you dont pay up is anything but optional.
So, of course, people rightfully detest the idea of shillings being buyable with money. I pray Fatshark keeps in-game currency and obtainable items strictly seperate from the ones costing money and I WILL throw a tantrum if they dont.
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This exactly.
But how will you step up the grind game in v2 (for you maby worse for me ok )more ? And how is it different from now if u want to get all red Illusions i see ppl complaining here with hunderts of hours that got like hand full reds i mean i dont got this kind of Problem got nearly everything for every Charakter double or more time red and like 70 red dust just missing a hand full Illusions
The issue with the current system is that with most of the cosmetics (achievements excluded) there’s no way to guarentee a specific drop. Its not that players are unwilling to play to earn, that part of the game can be a positive experience. Its just that a large number of the weapon cosmetics have no way to definitively earn them. That’s presumably what we are going to be testing with this upcoming beta is how long it should take to unlock a cosmetic. How many how fast is an appropriate shilling allocation and how will players go about using the system. Since it sounds like it will work in conjunction with the current RNG allocation system it doesn’t require a current overhaul of the current RNG allocation system, it instead augments it. You’ll get some at random but if there’s a specific one you want you can now go after it and unlock it with an understanding of what your investment will be. I don’t see this as adding to the grind if shillings are being added on top of all in place systems the only effect it could have would be to lessen the grind and curb cases of “my one thing I want didn’t drop”. If you look at it from a “I need literally everything standpoint” then I expect it will take a large amount of time. But I see that as a good thing it means as the roster of cosmetics increases there’s more things to earn and players can choose what they want to go after. Since this stuff is all cosmetic non of it effects the gameplay stats so the core gameplay remains unchanged (for better or worse…crafting 
).
If you want to increase grind you can add in some really high end cosmetics that take longer to earn (think like the 100 helms) but if they’re going to do that I think that adding the ability to buy shillings is of detriment. If they want to have some prestige “hey it took some real time to earn that” cosmetics then allowing players to just snap them up with cash degrades that achievement somewhat.
A player can calculate their play time in comparison to what they buy. But that’s different than calculating money to time value by Fatshark for its entire audience. I think you’re too quick to dismiss the difference between exclusive pay/earn cosmetics and hybrid ones. At the risk of just reiterating my earlier statement let me see if I can do it better.
In the case of a pay only cosmetic Fatshark’s questions are. How many players will spend how much on these cosmetics (trying to max the number of sales mulitplied by the cost)? How much do we need to make in cosmetic sales for Vermintide to be financially successful?
If they release shillings as a earn only currency to unlock exclusive to play input cosmetics. The questions are. How long should it take to earn cosmetics? This question does have questions related to cosmetic development time and how often/many can be addded. But it is also one largely based on rewarding players. AKA At what rate does earning them feel like a worthwhile time investment to the player. As I’ve said before I like a good game play loop (grind if you prefer). I think the hardcore audience already shows it likes the input part of the loop. But extreme RNG to determine rewards has caused some frustration which is hopefully what this system can alleviate. So that the gameplay can be fun and the reward for game play is also appropriate and equally rewarding.
Now if you institute shillings as an item you can both pay for or earn then Fatshark has another question to ask. Do shillings as a sale item need to provide a significant amount of sales in order to fund Vermintide? It is possible that the answer is no and it’s literally pay for convenience no strings attached. But usually that’s not the case. This is where it will become subjective. You’ll say that I don’t have buy and can just earn. I’ll say that the incentive to increase the shilling price to entice players to buy rather than earn will negatively effect the earn rate. And that answer will be both subjectively decided by each player but the ultimate implementation will be by Fatshark. But if they release “hybrid currency” the possibility of offsetting a more rewarding scale to earn them at is there, and if they just stick to each being exclusive that incentive isn’t one that can be capitalized on.
So again not that what you want will be of detriment to the game just that it could be and I’d rather just avoid that possibility.
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Good explanation!
lol your just taking this a little too far and exasperating the situation XD or as I like to call it " blowing it out of proportion"…like most mayflies
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Yes i kind of get youre Argumentation now but I think this is a bit to much of black painting worst case thinking for me. But hey that’s your opinion and I respect that
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It’s extrapolation, not ‘exasperating’.
Toasty, it seems a worst case scenario because some players(me) do not trust FS(or any corporation) to not be greedy to a comical degree. So best to avoid scenarios that encourage or enable such IMO
I think that this outlook you speak of is coming from the experience - or at least information - we got from other developers. Many of those who choose that dark path of endless micro transactions were once at the same crossroads FS is standing at right now. They could have done it the right way, they chose not to. And it got worse and worse and worse.
One example many are looking at is Bethesda:
Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim.
Although somewhat janky they were beloved by fans because you could see the passion. Todd Howard was a meme then, yes, but he was also praised for his involment in creating those games.
But it all changed when the Creation Club atta-… i mean arrived (after the failed paid mods workshop).
It was only a small start.
Not many would have guessed what it made out of Bethesda (in only 2 years). It was a bit more egregious in Fallout 4 (which i still liked, but it already lacked something). And then came Fallout 76 and Elder Scrolls: Blades. Both those games are filled with microtransactions to the brim and with horrendous pricing, and Fallout 76 has more problems than only that.
A path that has lead others to those regretful actions is a path not worth taking if there could be better options, even if that option may simply be to avoid them.
That’s what’s learning from the past is, for me at least.
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This post went a lot further than I expected it to, and a lot of folks shared the concerns that I have with how this whole system looks. Between the loot mechanics and adding in a new currency, it REALLY does look a lot like Fatshark is trying to ease the community into a microtransaction or lootbox economy. It’d be nice if the devs released a statement about their long term intentions on this subject.
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lol so you are worried that you have to spend a little bit more spare change on the game?.. fair enough ,but this isn’t 2005 anymore…games are not like how they used to be my friend. Keep up with the times, get a new past time mate or just not buy anything at all . You have lots of choices other than complaining mate.
Even if you don’t intend to spend money on a microtransaction based system (I sure as hell won’t), complaining about it to prevent our favorite game from being ruined by it is still valid. Because if it gets introduced, it will affect us negatively. And yeah, if it gets too bad one can always find something else to do, but it would still be such a shame for what is now a good game.
Also, I dislike that defeatist attitude of “that’s just how stuff is nowadays”. Just because of how things are, doesn’t mean you can’t hope / try to change them for the better. Quite the contrary, actually! Not specific for games, but it does apply in this situation as well.
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This is one of my favorite games and I am an advent Warhammer fantasy follower been playing Warhammer for easily 25 years…and the thing is this can be your favorite game but the the thing is …This isn’t your game…or anyone else’s game.
You did not make this you didn’t spend hours coding and sculpting and animating and putting in hours of hard work to fruition ( yes this is applicable and the creators can have creative liberties when the vision doesn’t mean giving out power, boosters , exploiting the player base to give them unfair advantages exc. )… I have been following Fatshark since 2015 when they first came out openly about Vermintide 1…
I also know that if they start performing practices that are outwardly shady ( refer to above ) they will have dedicated fans like me putting a fuqing JDAM missile up their arses…which I know they really don’t want… I believe that , like they said, there wont be any micro-transactions just extra cosmetic DLC you can buy from the store page.
the currency in game will NEVER be monetized and you can only earn it from in game. I have no fuqing clue what is with you people and objecting to have content that has no effect on game play and not getting power/everyone else. The purchasable things will only be cosmetic THATS IT lol. So calm the fuq down , take a seat and chill lmfao .
There is absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetic vanity items the problem is with buying loot-boxes to get power and items that either affect game play time or how game play is done for the good of the player over anyone who doesn’t buy. Someone having a cool helmet doesn’t affect your game play , nor does it mean they are better or they have some type of advantage… they just like fuqing cosmetics mate lol. so seriously everyone take a chill pill and relax XD
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Considering the low drop rates of cosmetics and the estimation that you need way, way over 1000 hours in this game to get all the red weapons and their various skins, there is very little room to make it MORE tedious.
Droprates in this game feel like they were designed for a game with microtransactions, without the actual microtransactions to alleviate the grind.
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But that´s what Lohner´s Emporium is supposed to be for. A way to reasonably earn the cosmetics you want without having to rely on miniscule drop rates.
If shillings for money was a thing, there is no way the shilling prices/earn rates would remain reasonable. I certainly would not take these chances.
Don´t forget that V2 is NOT a free to play game. The game costs money and so do the expansions. There is no excuse to put a F2P economy in this game.
If some direct skin purchases help finance some otherwise free content, I can live with that. But keep real money out of the game economy!
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