I posted this in the wrong forum, so here it is again -
This might be a long one, so buckle your seats, it would be great to hear something back from you guys and your thoughts.
First off let me just prerequisite, I love when games are made to be difficult. As a mythic raider on wow, an avid Deep Rock Galactic, Killing Floor 2 player and (most importantly) an absolute fangirl for VT2, I respect when developers aren’t afraid to make something difficult and ‘cater’ to an audience that takes pleasure into mastering a game’s mechanics to beat whatever the developers want to throw at us. However, there’s something really, really important which seems to be almost a boogieman when it comes to difficult games. To put it simply:
A game being difficult does not inherently make it a rewarding or enjoyable experience to complete it
Why is this a boogieman in hardcore gaming? It’s a two-word phrase, one we here often, it’s a phrase that can be funny to use as a comment to something completely unrelated and used ironically, like when a dad completely dominates his son in a game of backyard football. However, it’s also the most toxic phrase when trying to give critical feedback to a game in its development cycle. If you haven’t figured it out yet… well… Skill Issue.
Maybe there’s two phrases, get good is another term that gets used as a response to people who have complaints about the difficulty of a game. Sometimes I do believe this is valid, Elden Ring got a lot of negative reviews from people for it being too hard, to these people I would say, you’re wrong, but there is a catch to that. To a new player of a ‘souls’ game, the game is extremely hard (with not a lot of in game advice to direct people to learn), so I agree with them the initial experience can be jarring. This is however where my sympathies with them end, because they really aren’t asking the right questions.
The real question is, does to process of getting better at Elden Ring feel rewarding? the answer is 100% yes. Obviously, it was made that way for a reason, and as I said before, I 100% respect a developer which understands making a game a certain way means it won’t cater to everyone. Some people might not find the same enjoyment out of learning something to that level when they are other games out there which you could get equal amounts of enjoyment out of without there being any necessary challenge (animal crossing gang where you at?). However, to those who do fit under the category, learning the games mechanics, while also using trial and error & third party resources to understand specific problems and encounters is enjoyable. If the sole reason you completing an encounter is the direct result of you being better than what the game throws at you, then the games difficulty should be praised.
Now I’ve listed a great example of how difficulty benefits a game, I’m not going to give you a short example of a game(s) that has a very, very poor difficulty setting.
Total War: I love total war, but I think anyone who plays total war will agree that how CA deals with difficulty is incredibly bland and unrewarding. Higher difficulties, in practicality, allow the AI to cheat in order to have the upper hand on you. AI factions receive more income, less upkeep costs on units, sometimes faster replenishment rates and inflated unit statistics in order to beat you, the game does not ‘get harder’ for you to beat it, the AI does not get smarter, the challenge does not get bigger or different. the scenarios are the exact same, the game needs to cheat itself in order to beat you.
God of War: Hear me out, God of war 4 & Ragnarök are both GOTY’s for me, however it’s way of implementing difficulty is poor, the core gameplay of these games is absolutely fantastic. I’m still waiting on Ragnarök for PC, so I can’t comment on that too much. But the difficulty settings on that game meant purely that the enemies did more damage and have more health, to the best of my knowledge, bosses did not introduce new mechanics or abilities for the player to master. if you’ve beaten a boss with very little effort on the normal difficulty, the scenario doesn’t get harder the higher up the difficulty setting, it just gets longer. Many (many) games fall into this category; I just used a current example of a truly great game just to highlight how our perception of difficulty has been warped over the years.
Now, regarding Darktide.
I’m leaving bugs, crashes, performance, UI, Balance and all of this out of it as much as possible, since most of these (which are very valid critiques) are fixable in the short term ‘mostly’, however what we are discussing now are Moreso to do with game design which might need some serious revisioning.
**In short, Darktide’s hardest difficulties do not make the game more enjoyable for a player who wants a harder experience. **
Why is that? I’ll list them off and go into them in a bit more detail on each section, obviously, i have other things to do with my life then play Darktide, I’ve only been able to get the Psyker to 30 and the Veteran to 13 (which is still, more than most… maybe I don’t have a life?) any feedback regarding the other classes in the comment section would be great, or even corrections if needed. I also can’t remember the names of all the elites and enemies off the top of my head, sorry in advance.
Why Darktide’s harder difficulties are harming the player experience:
- They don’t reward player proficiency.
- It’s easier to avoid problems than to combat them.
- Promotes a passive, reserved playstyle.
- Much of the damage in practicality unavoidable.
- Much of the damage taken feels like you were forced/tricked into taking it.
Many of these sections interconnect with each other, or one might be the symptom of another, so it’s very hard to put these thoughts into words, so I’m going to give you a scenario in two different difficulty settings that I know that myself and others have been in many times that highlights these issues.
Difficulty 2: You are on an ammo storage mission with a group of your friends, it’s been (for the most part) a fun hack and slash to the end, there were points where you got pinged by a sniper from nowhere that one time which made it a bit more spicy, there was also that gunner on top of the stairs just out of sight pinning you down, you can’t get a good shot on due to the horde, you and another one of your team push through, take a fair bit of damage from the ranged troops but finally get a good angle to destroy them all, it wasn’t the hardest thing in the world, but it was fun. You get to the final area to collect the ammo crates, you decide 2 of you will work on moving the crates, 2 of you will protect them, you’re standing next to your friend body blocking him for dear life, you probably didn’t need to, but it was fun, your other friend (who was meant to be body blocking too) was going around killing elites on his own for some fun. you finish the mission, it wasn’t difficult, but you enjoyed it.
Difficulty 4/5: You are on an ammo storage mission with a group of friends, it’s taken way longer than it probably should of, but you had to take the missions very ‘methodically’ otherwise you physically wouldn’t have the ammo, health or even cover to deal with the gunner packs waiting for you alongside a potential horde spawning. You get halfway through the mission and enter a long hallway with a lot of cover at the enemies end for them to hide behind, but besides the pillars at the sides of the tunnel, you and your friends are mostly in the open, all of you want to charge the distance down, but you understand that the amount of ranged fire there will absolutely delete you, and you don’t have an ogryn with a shield. Instead, you all stand vaguely behind one of, or multiple of said pillars, and have the psyker keeping dodging out of cover, hopefully locking on to an annoying elite, dodging back into cover and brain bursting it, alongside the veteran throwing grenades and shooting potshots at the grunts to trim them down. You spend much longer than you would of liked there, but it had to be done. You get to the last area and you proceed to go to the containers to get the ammo, you get into the container, however you see 2 red lines looking to absolutely destroy you, you want to dodge in and out of the container to hope your brain blast targets the sniper, but it keeps targeting the grunts next to it, you need to go outside of it for a better shot, you go outside of it but you start to get gunned down by 2 heavy gunners suppressing you. you have no choice but to stay in the container, you stay there killing hordes and waiting for the sniper/gunners run around to get a good shot on you, which also gives you a shot on them, grenade elites start thowing grenades into the container, so you can’t stay in there, you can’t get out of there, you all die. You could have played it better perhaps, but you feel more frustrated due to the fact it was such a ballache to get there, only to be beaten by poor rng.
So what’s the difference between these 2 scenarios? We’ll go through our original criteria again
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despite the fact you are obviously good enough to dodge and block incoming attacks, it doesn’t mean much when elites spawn in areas where you cannot reach, and do not have the means to even attack, while they can attack you. Not to mention that ‘easier’ enemies such as ranged grunts pose a much greater threat then most elites.
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When encountering a harder area, the best tactic for harder difficulties is usually the ‘mechanically easiest’. don’t push, don’t take risks, stand behind cover and hope you get a few good shots in, the simplest approach is the best, this does not reward players with more game knowledge.
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Again, you are better off taking one pack at a time, it’s slow, the pacing doesn’t reflect the fast nature of the actual combat system. Again, making the game ‘easier’ by purely taking it easier, not by challenging yourself to do better.
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Sniper shots are avoidable, normal ranged fire is avoidable, it’s not avoidable when you are easily suppressed by the ranged grunts and a heavy gunner making your movement speed zero.
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“lets go in here to not get shot at” proceeds to get their ass roasted by a flame thrower and grenade.
this is probably the weaker section when talking about game difficulty as a whole, especially when not comparing it to VT2, in hindsight, maybe it was a better idea doing that in the first place, but this has taken a long time to write and its also because quite the ballache. What do i personally think needs to change immediately for harder difficulties to be more skill expressive?
- Ranged grunts need to do way less damage &/or not attribute to suppression**
- Suppression (and other negative character effects) need to be reduced or have a cap on the duration you can be suppressed for**
- Elite spawns need to be less randomized and placed better, having a sniper on one end and 2 heavy gunners making sure you can’t move to combat any of them isn’t difficult or fun, it’s a chore more than a challenge.**
I am more than happy being punished by a missed dodge or poor placement, i am not happy being forced into making a choice that either removes any skill expression and makes me have to ‘cheese’ a scenario, or one which forces me into one choice, then punishes me for spawning something to punish the place I was just put in.