Bots power level increases with the host. So at the end of a CW run they are stronger than their adventure mode counterparts. Not sure if they gain properties and traits though.
Boons they do not gain as you said. Also in relation to the additional coins. It will be discussed (has been discussed?) internally again.
Playing with bots will never be the same as playing an ordinary match. I’m not really sure what’s an “ordinary match” even, but I won’t nitpick. It’s just that even playing with QP players is such a random-fest.
Playing with bots require you to be aware of their positioning and threats that will be dangerous to them. Sometimes you need to think ahead even.
Is this easy? Nope.
But in general, on my experience, people are even more random.
Bots can chase specials, but they have an easy priority.
Bosses->Specials->Elites->Trash if I’m not mistaken.
This can be played around.
Players on the other hand?
I’ve seen people getting grims on Cata meanwhile the whole team is dealing with boss and horde.
I’ve seen people stay behind their team for no apparent reason.
I’ve seen people literally rushing towards the Sovngarde aggroing all the bosses/patrols and dying.
I’ve seen people just friendly fire other people, act toxic and do generally weird stuff.
To me playing with people is just a pandora’s box.
You could get either a modded player that will shred your Cata run with you duo while having a conversation about first Shrek movie getting a better version or you could get a lvl 20 guy dying 15~ times per map and flaming his team for half of his deaths.
Bots, in general, are just more consistent. That’s why I prefer them if I just want to chill.
They’re dumb, but they’re predictably dumb.
And when they’re not dumb - holy hell they snipe specials instantly across the map, kite bosses and survive patrols like total chads. It’s just that it feels like a bonus, not something you should except all the time and play around.
Play around bots at their worst.
Avoid ledges if possible, kill all the S-tier danger specials like Flamethrower/Gunner/Gases (they’re easy for players, but absolute bot-demolishers).
Try to focus elites in hordes and get hordes away from bots when there’s boss that you can’t burst.
And just have an Unchained/IB/Merc bot party with stacked survivability gear and talents.
Not saying all of this to you specifically. Just a general tip.
Knowing bots makes things much more easier.
The only downside of bots beings OP is that people playing with them will lack in skill because bots are doing all the job for them. Not sure if anyone suffers from this rather than the player that chooses to play with bots.
Though, I don’t care if they’re going to be OP.
They just should be polished.
They’re already OP in terms of their aim and ability to dodge overheads and kiting bosses like rat ogre.
Yes, that it true, I shouldn’t mentioned that to be fully fair.
Debatable. If you’re saying “stronger” as if they just have purely more power - that is true.
But To me “stronger” means that they can survive and handle stuff as long as possible.
And giving them more raw power doesn’t exactly achieve that.
I would argue that bots with properties/traits > bots with more power.
I don’t think they do.
They don’t get bonuses from map rewards too.
Discussions are great, but I’d rather have people playing with OP bots for now (considering devs said that making OP bots is EASY, almost a quote) and focus on their mistakes rather than people playing with decent bots that can act dumb from time to time making people complain about them reasonably or not.
I have all my supports towards people that say bots should be improved.
It’s just that I don’t agree with people that state things like “I can’t complete this Legend run because of the bots!!”.
I think that’s the only bonus they do get. *
They certainly get the %HP increase, as that’s the only thing it’s easy to check.
Also, players joining late get those bonuses, so it makes me think they are global party modifiers, rather than something that’s given out on completion to specific players present.
*(other than the weapon power advancing along with the host, which as you said doesn’t really do much as bots are generally used as tanks/distractions on high difficulties)
Are we sure about this? There is no confirmation but bots at least benefit from either Miracle of Grimnir OR map rewards: Bots in Chaos Wastes - #41 by Xanoth
The consens seems to be that it it the map rewards they get as they are global modifiers (which I can confirm by late joining player ALSO do get map rewards of prior maps).
For traits it is harder to confirm (no answer from developers so far) unless it is something with a distinctable effect (so basically Shockwave).
Obviously, it IS easy. Give them damage immunity, unlimited ammo, increased fire power, reaction time of 0 seconds and aimbotting precision. Making OP bots IS easy. But I don’t think that should be the goal. Fixing bugs if anything yea. But I don’t fancy very much the idea of making them better than the average player. If anything give players options to micro them - either by reacting to the social wheel or introducing a gambit system as suggested before.
I think they do, just not all the time?
Because I definitely remember getting different HP bonuses that stacked, yet bots can sometime stay at regular HP.
As far as I tested it in release days on modded - it didn’t work. Maybe something changed? I’ve seen other people mentioning this too. Will not state I’m 100% sure about this though.
Neither do I.
But I’d prefer less people struggle with them or even more: struggle with OP bots.
If you’re dying with absolutely OP bots - maybe then you’ll think twice.
I’m pretty sure they don’t benefit from Miracles.
I’m not even sure they benefit from the +50 weapon power one.
I can probably do some testing during work breaks.
I still stand by bots having gotten worse since the update to ‘improve’ them, they eat way more hits in melee with few, low tier enemies which they didn’t previously. I also don’t agree that bots should be like true solo, you’re already penalised for taking them in that if you slip up once and go down they may well not rezz you, and if only bots are alive on the team, you wipe. Many of the situations that bots wipe in atm are weird ones, e.g. running at ranged weapon rats like lemmings, or standing in gas, which even bad PuG players are generally aware enough to avoid (not all ofc, but the times I have encountered one it was usually 1/4 of the team that did that, like the one guy who decides to fight bosses with his back to a cliff).
To fix them: They need to be a bit better at surviving melee hits again, not try to rezz each other when their guard gets broken without clearing some space first (as this tends to be what causes them to ‘bug out’ and just stand there, they are trying to rezz but have so many enemies around they physyically can’t), they need to stop chasing specials across the map in melee (mainly they need a tighter leash around the player and not to charge warpfire/ratling fire + actually be aware of hookrats), and they really shouldn’t engage the boss at as far a distance, often they’ll force the boss fight in a bad spot e.g. at the end of a narrow corridor with storm fiend while you wait for them to die or get smacked back somewhere better to fight.
They don’t need to be able to kill everything but if they could just survive a bit better again it’d go a long way. Right now bots leave little room for error or experimenting on new careers with them, you’re punished for taking them as is. If I want a true solo I’d do a true solo, not play with bots. Bots atm feel like babysitting simulator except the babies are generally already in the bathtub with the toaster when you arrive. I have seen Merc Kruber die to three trash Chaos enemies at the start of Against the Grain, he was using Exec heavies and by the time he got to the third he’d eaten so many hits he went down. Nothing else was around/the others bots and I weren’t helping him since I backed away wanting to observe. The bot used to be decent with Exec prior to the update but now I generally find myself giving him Bret LS instead.
I’d settle for more control over them in the mean while (mainly being able to keep them from kiting bosses into bad spots, facetanking warp/ratling fire and having them on a tighter leash vs globadiers etc).
To be fair bots were much more better since they improved them.
What I’ve noticed is that a lot of their improved behavior disappeared after some time since the update.
For example they handled Gunners/Flames decently since the improvement, but after some time they started dying to them 3v1 again.
That’s possible, I only came back a bit after CW launched and the DLC sale was on (I thought bots got updated with CW? I must be mistaken), they were definitely worse at the point I came back compared to when I started my break from the game.
Sounds like FS accidentally rolled back the improvements over ensuing updates then 
Yeah, HP is the only one that I was able to confirm too.
It would be nice if the bots scaled with the players they’re with. Like if I’m taking every hit thrown at me, bots will get worse at avoiding hits, similarly if I’ve gone two hoards without taking a hit, the bots should be able to keep up.
You could tune them to always be a bit worse than the player, but it would solve the problem of bots being overpowered and carrying the player vs the bots being deadweight and contributing very little.
Its interesting that you use V1 as example, because it was immediately dead when V2 came out and V2 had arguably worse bots on release than V1 had. Though the single-players didnt go back to V1 but started complaining about the bots in V2. I guess we would need actual numbers about how many people are playing solo on private but i will make the bold assumption that the vast majority of V2 players are playing with other people, so i dont really think that the playerbase would drop significantly if there is no other buffs for the bots coming.
Of course we could argue that the terrible bots are the fault of people leaving th game again three weeks after CW released but i heavily doubt that. I was slightly optimistic and gave the update a whole month until the playerbase would be at 5-6k again per day and what do have now? 5.7k players online during prime-time. Expected, because the content of CW is worth around two weeks experience for the casual player. The experienced player has seen everything already in the first week of release.
But lets go back to the bots again, because i certainly didnt make enough points. Lets say, i have nothing against bots up to champion but i do think that single-players should have to do way more work on legend and cata with bots than playing with other people who can efficiently take over specific jobs during the run. I dont think a bot run on legend and cata should be as easy as with players, arguably even easier and we had that situation several times.
Then we have the problem of single-players not experiencing runs with actual players and thus often times playing terribly in coop mode. The single-players are adapted to the bots just following them everywhere and they equipped their bots with specific gear to do a specific job. They dont need to react to their team outside of fights. They dont learn to wait at a point of no return for the other players, they just jump because they are adapted to bots being directly behind them. Of course we could say that this wouldnt be a problem if every single-player just stays single-player but even that doesnt really happen. And then we get the single-player who has almost no experience with other players and now sees how other players play the game and comes to the conclusion that they are bad, because they dont behave like the bots.
Bots are a complicated matter and i am saying that bots should not replace other people. Bots should not be as efficient as a player on legend and cata and single-players should need an above average casual skill to finish legend and above difficulty with bots.
Sometimes you have to play with bots. I did deed the 500 deeds mostly with bots because Fatshark didn’t make a deed lobby, plus when the GK and OE DLC released you just couldn’t find team mates through quickplay because everyone was playing the exact same class. I played almost all the 125 legend games required for the career challenges with 3 bots.
That said, bots are fine on legend, but they really need to be better at sniping specials to make them a viable alternative to human team mates on Cata.
I’ve been playing VT1 a lot recently with the latest bot mod, and bots in this game are much better at handling specials than in VT2. There’s a lot of room for improvement for VT2, without unbalancing the game.
To be fair, there is happening a lot less in VT1 which makes bots better by default because they have to make decisions on less complex situations. For example one of the most often mentioned complain I read isbots not reacting to Leeches. Figure out why this doesn’t happen in VT1.
Also concerning the bot mod making the bots better is because they essentially contain cheats:
Hackweek bot beta (updated beta 2017-05-25) :: Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide Red Moon Inn | General Discussion
I’m sorry but Waystalker bot getting downed before the elevator on the Skittergate because she ate a mauler’s overhead with her ult bow out while all three other players haven’t taken a single hit is not me “struggling on Legend”. It’s the bot being an idiot.
Mercenary or WHC shouting at a patrol is not me “struggling on Legend”. It’s the bot being an idiot.
Any bot running off a cliff is not me “struggling on Legend”. It’s the bot being an idiot.
Any bot standing in warpfire dancing is not me “struggling on Legend”. It’s the bot being an idiot.
Any bot standing on my downed body (because I’m not a perfect player and this happens to anyone) looking at the sunset, is not me “struggling on Legend”. It’s the bot being an idiot.
Any bot standing in a horde or facing berzerkers with their ranged weapons out is not me “struggling on Legend”. It’s the bot being an idiot.
I rest my case, your honour.
The point still stands. Bots could be better if Fatshark allowed them to be, which they should.
My main point is that bots in VT1 actually shoot specials, especially if the player tags them. There is no excuse for VT2 bots to run headlong into a flame thrower or to all abandon the player to chase down and melee a distant globadier. It’s just lazy design.
Bots suck. They need investment to stand a chance against anything holding an illongated object in their hands and their inability to properly use their own weapons severly gates their choices when it comes to weapon/talent selection.
They also dont know how to play their own role so you see Waystalker Bot blowing her ability on a couple of slave rats every time its up.
Iron breaker is practically mandatory unless you pick Bardin and even then far better players than I have stated that not having IB bot severly hinders your odds in a solo bots run.
What do we even want out of bots? They take aggro, they help you up, they add DPS, they hold items for you and give you useful team skills. Do they do a good job? Yes and no. Mostly no.
Should Fatshark fix? Absolutely. Im not asking for bots to do everything for us and essentially be a failsafe against poor decision making. Only to function as proxy teammates that can perform BASIC FUNCTIONS that even a recruit player can do without messing up.
I do understand that bugs should be fixed, but how good should a bot actually be?
A Waystalker sniping specials with longbow, mowing down trash with double swords and using the ultimate for specific threats is already a viable alternative to a player, arguably even much better, because players have different skill levels and bots would be on the same level all the time. I am firmly against that. Bots should not be an efficient alternative to players.
So what exactly do you want from bots? Because all i see is that you guys want them to be as viable as players and since Bots should share a specific skill level, they either suck or outperform other players. Just explain in detail what you expect from bots on legend +.
