so over in that other thread about weapons I was poking around with an idea for customizable loadouts with regards to holding two weapons at a time.
Here’s the basic pitch:
Obviously Warhammer 40,000 has a very long history of people holding two weapons at once, two swords, two axes, or a gun in one hand and a sword in the other. It’s like one of the more iconic looks of the whole franchise. Basically every book or box art has some guy front and center shooting his bolt pistol at something while holding a power sword up high.
So it’d be pretty neat if we could do that in Darktide. The precedent is also there in Vermintide; Saltzpyre’s got his Rapier + Pistol weapon, and everybody (except poor Sienna) has some type of dual melee weapons, plus Saltzpyre’s got dual pistols and Bardin has dual drakefires.
However, Darktide has a lot of very similar weapons, with all the different types and all their different marks. If it were to work like it did in Vermintide where Kruber’s ‘Sword And Shield’ was a completely different item from his ‘Mace And Shield’ and also his ‘Spear And Shield’ and his ‘Sword And Mace,’ then Fatshark would need to pump out something to the order of several hundred new weapons to account for every possible combination of weapon + other weapon. So instead of doing that, I’ve come up with an idea for customizable weapon loadouts that would allow players to select a main weapon and another weapon for their off hand. This would open up some better tactical diversity, since it would effectively allow players to bring two guns into battle instead of only one (though the second gun would have significant penalties attached, which I’ll get to below), or two different kinds of melee attack, similar to how there are already melee attacks attached to some guns, like the helbore’s bayonet stab, or the heavy stubber’s bash, or the force staff’s utterly useless boop attack that really needs to be replaced with something more interesting.
The Mechanics
Main points:
- As before, you have two weapon spaces, one melee and one ranged.
- Both weapon spaces are now comprised of a Main Hand Slot and an Off Hand Slot.
- All weapons are categorized as either Two Handed, Main Hand Only, One Handed, or Off Hand Only.
- Most melee weapons are Main Hand Only.
- Smaller melee weapons, including the combat knives, combat swords, and tactical axes, (and maaaaybe chain swords and combat axes? not really sure.) as well as all one handed guns (laspistols, revolvers, autopistol, the upcoming bolt pistol, and the ogryn’s grenade gauntlet) are One Handed. One Handed weapons and can be placed in either the Main Hand Slot or the Off Hand Slot.
- Two handed weapons take up both Main Hand and Off Hand slots; they are unchanged in this system. This includes heavy swords, eviscerators, thunder hammers, and every gun not mentioned above.
- Currently the only Off Hand Only item is the ogryn’s shield.
If you equip a One Handed gun in your Main Hand, you can equip one of the same gun in the Off Hand, or you can equip a One Handed melee weapon in the Off Hand, or you can leave the Off Hand slot empty.
If you equip a Main Hand Only or One Handed melee weapon in your Main Hand, you can equip any One Handed melee weapon in the Off Hand, or you can equip a One Handed gun in the Off Hand, or you can leave the Off Hand slot empty.
Leaving the Off Hand slot empty will play exactly like these weapons currently do.
Zealots could possibly be allowed to carry Main Hand Only melee weapons in their Off Hand, so zealots can run in swinging two axes but veterans and psykers can’t, because zealots are bonkers.
Controls
Dual Melee
With two melee weapons equipped, the weapon is changed to a new distinct moveset similar to how Vermintide handles dual weapons. The stats of each individual strike depend on which weapon made the hit. There are three such dual weapon movesets, shared across all combinations of two melee weapons:
- “Medium + Medium” axe and falchion style, for any Main Hand weapon (including the combat knife) plus any Off Hand weapon that isn’t a knife.
- “Medium + Light” sword and dagger style, for any Main Hand non-knife weapon plus a knife in the Off Hand.
- “Light + Light” dual daggers style, exclusively for using two knives.
These styles all attack slightly faster than one handed weapons.
The function of the Special Action button remains whatever it normally is for the Main Hand Weapon, except for the combat knife. Special Action with a combat knife in the main hand and something else in the off hand changes to be a disruptive quick jab with the off hand weapon.
Melee and Ranged
With one melee weapon and one gun equipped, Left Click attacks with whichever weapon is in the Main Hand. Right Click braces both weapons together, aiming with the gun (or bracing it in the case of the autopistol and fanning revolver) and blocking with the melee weapon at the same time. Blocking an attack very briefly disables your ability to fire your gun.
The Special Action button attacks with whichever weapon is on the Off Hand: firing the gun just like Saltzpyre’s rapier and pistol, or a quick jab with a melee weapon just like mentioned above with the combat knife. This can be done while holding right click. Doing so will either fire the gun while aiming/blocking, or will shove with the melee weapon.
Dual Guns
With two guns, controls are unchanged from normal.
Drawbacks
The Main Hand weapon’s stats are used for stamina and dodging. Whatever is held in the off hand applies a small penalty to Mobility, Finesse, Stability, and Accuracy, so generally dual weapons will have slightly lower dodge distance, dodge count, movement speed, and accuracy than their individual counterparts. Smaller off hand weapons like laspistols and combat knives apply a smaller penalty than larger off hand weapons like tactical axes or revolvers.
Dual Melee
The individual damage and armor piercing of each weapon’s heavy attack is slightly reduced.
Gun + Melee
Guns held in the Main Hand while a melee weapon is in the Off Hand have slightly reduced accuracy while hip firing, and take slightly longer to reload. Additionally, their Special Actions cannot be used.
Melee + Gun
Guns held in the off hand have drastically reduced maximum ammunition, take considerably longer to reload, have reduced stability, have slightly reduced accuracy while aiming, and higher reduced accuracy when firing from the hip. Additionally, their Special Actions cannot be used.
Main Hand melee weapons while a gun is held in the Off Hand have slightly reduced damage and armor piercing for their heavy attacks, and have very slightly reduced stamina.
Dual Guns
Dual guns have reduced accuracy, longer reload times, reduced stability, and lower zoom distance while aiming. Also, having two guns does not increase your maximum ammunition, only your magazine size and fire rate, so while you will be able dish out damage much faster, you will spend your ammo much faster too.
Perks and Blessings
While holding two weapons at once, Perk values are averaged between them. IE, if your sword has +2 stamina and your pistol has +1 stamina, when both are equipped you get +1.5 stamina. If the two weapons have different perks on them, then you get half of all four.
Only the Blessings on the Main Hand weapon are applied. The Blessings of whatever you are holding in the Off Hand are disabled.
Ability Items
A related idea, other equipment items that are Off Hand Only. They would act similarly to off hand alternate weapons; reducing the main hand melee weapon’s heavy attack power a bit as if the item were an off hand gun, and reducing the main hand gun’s accuracy and such as if the item were an off hand melee weapon.
These items would add some kind of unique buff to the player carrying them, or could change the main weapon’s Special Action to some other ability, a little like having a second weaker Blitz. They would all likely run on cooldowns, or perhaps have their own “ammunition” that gets charged up/replenished in various ways, like when the player takes a certain amount of damage or gets a certain number of crits or headshots/kills/elite kills/whatever.
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Holy Relic or Blessed Tome - For Zealots. Could do stuff like knock adjacent enemies down, maybe ignite enemies in front of you, shine a light that blinds enemy shooters for a short time, or just some basic buffs like faster toughness regen or whatever. Maybe throw in some of those Acts of Faith.
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Psionic Focus or Spellbook - For Psykers. There are all kinds of other more support-y psyker powers in the lore and books and whatnot. It’d be neat to be able to point some kind of glowy skull artifact at people and cast Terrifying Visions and make them all cower and run away for a few seconds.
and some other stuff,
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Torch - Just like, a regular flashlight. Usable by anybody. So that you can like, carry a flashlight and a revolver at the same time. Or a flashlight and a sword at the same time.
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Lantern - Also usable by anybody. Like a flashlight, except it illuminates an area around yourself instead of a beam in front of you. Might be more useful than a flashlight for melee focused guys on Lights Out missions.
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Shield - Something like a riot shield for the Veteran and those big fancy Crusader shields for the Zealot would be awesome.
So that’s my idea for a dual wielding system. It would let Veterans carry chainswords and bolt pistols. Psykers with force swords and laspitols. Ogryn with shield and grenade gauntlet. Zealots with dual swords like a deathcult assassin.
it makes me sad because i know it’ll never happen