i used this weapon once until this weapon not going to be reworked iam not going 2 use it imo most dog s*** weapon in zealot arsenal its not even good for trash ads clear its ok the most.
I think making it like the plasma and giving it small ammo reserve but large damage potential is the right move, at least until they get of their butts and give us melta. 50 capacity, 150 reserve (so 2 reloads +starting tank). Make the primary fire do the current pisspoor damage but the stream deal about 25% more damage and increase max burn stacks to 20, application tick rate to 0.2. (which translates to 5 stacks per second. Increase the burn damage by about 20%. These values of course reflecting 80% value in their respective stats.
What you described is what I want for a melta gun, more or less ;-;
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I donât know what Iâd change, tbh.
On one hand I hate it when I have a teammate who just continually streams fire (real fire or psyker fire) all match long because of the insane visual clutter that fire effects cause in this game. Not to mention that you canât just not pay attention to the enemies theyâre flaming, because sometimes they donât die and will happily stab you in the butt the moment their stagger wears off.
On the other hand, streaming fire all the time like a psychopath is objectively the most fun way to play it.
Ideally we could do both - Let the flamer player burn everything all run long if they want AND tone fire visuals right the fâk down for everyone other than the person with the flamer.
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Yeah, and like I said, until they give us melta I want the flamer to serve that purpose. With how much horde-clear they have given melee the flamer has very little purpose being as low damage as it is. Burn damage hasnât really been toughed in the same way bleed damage has and the flamer is the main thing that actually does that damage type.
At one point they promised us melta, we do not have melta so, seeing as enemy fire got a big buff why not our fire (at least until melta comes into play where they will inevitably have to tough fire again).
Right, which is why the limited ammo supply. You can do piddly little bursts of fire all you want with that capacity but you will run out vey fast if you exclusively use the stream fire mode. I also think giving it a heat management system like the plasma could be a solution to it. Give it 100/100 primary fire generates 10% heat per burst, stream generates 10% initial then 2%/sec ramping to 5%/sec with the special action being to cool it off venting 20% on tap and rapidly cooling on hold, have it cool naturally at a 50% faster rate than plasma since it is obviously not as hot (so 1 reload +initial tank similar to plasma or heck give it the same ammo as plasma and introduce an inefficiency ammo consumption for high heat).
That could then justify a much higher damage bump. Maybe sacrifice size and range stat for the heat stat to help balance things out. Give it a range of 15m and a spread of 1m radius, have it stick to surfaces for 1 seconds for 25% damage but the same burn stack generation.
Literally the only reason I even have a build with the flamer.
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Flamer is so good at doing many things, and its best quality is that it can disintegrate chaff in less than a couple seconds. I believe it also has a higher stagger value per tick than the Purgatus, making it much better at reliably stopping mixed hordes on the approach.
But these are the main problems with most Zealots who use Flamer, in my opinion:
- They rely on Burn way too much to do damage for them
- They want max stacks of Burn on everything all the time
- They donât trust the raw tick damage of the Flamer, without Burn stacks
- They donât use left clickâs insanely high stagger to control Elite clusters
- As much as it blocks vision for team, it causes tunnel vision in the Zealot
A lot of these you could say is also an issue with Purgatus Psykers. Of course, left-click-spamming Purgatus Psykers also seem to be a thing.
Ambushing clusters of ranged enemies is extremely powerful when you only need a few ticks of Burn to kill almost all of the Shooters and Gunners. The fact that body mass is 100% ignored by this weapon makes it so easy to do so.
Getting to nearly max stacks of Burn in a few seconds on a Monstrosity makes a huge difference if your team isnât carrying anti-monstrosity weapons. From experience (and objective data), just having max Burn alone on a Monstrosity always tops total damage dealt to the Monstrosity if you can keep it saturated. Same thing with Bleed.
What it lacks in saturation upkeep (Psykerâs Soulblaze with Wildfire) it makes up for in raw and fast damage. This is kind of why using Light 'em Up on Ogryn demolishes boss HP since Burn has a rapid exponential damage climb with faster falloff compared to Soulblaze having a lower peak and slower falloff.
Iâd suspect weâll end up with two Flamer variants:
- High crit/ROF, low damage/stagger for rapid Burn saturation (crits apply 2 stacks of Burn/SB)
- Low crit/ROF, high damage/stagger for chaff clearing/mixed horde CC instead of needing Burn
I would love to see them incorporate something along the lines of narrowing the Flamerâs radius but making it much more longe-ranged. This could probably be applicable for variants, but it would be a striking differentiation from Purgatus.
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Unfortunately it doesnât ignore bulwark shields despite enemy flamers ignoring ogryn slab shield.
Well it makes sense.
Also throwing knives synergize well with the Flamer. Lets you duel with Specialists without having to go into melee. Since youâre already eliminating chaff, stun or immolation grenades donât really help a Flamer build (unless you really need that Elite CC with stun grenade, but thatâs a choice you have to make).
Obviously crit-focused builds make Burn saturation faster.
The game doesnât feel designed for any marks IMO.
While I probably agree, Iâm not sure I understand what you mean. Can you clarify? Do you mean any marks of flamer weapon?
I mean in general. For me, weapon marks still feel like a bloating of the item pool that was placeholded in after work on a weapon customisation system and the associated crafting system fell through. To me, itâs just not very exciting to get hard locked variations of the same weapons, doubly so when itâs bloating the RNG of item aquisition.
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As expected, yup I agree. Most weapons only have one mark worth using, some have two, but any that have three marks have one mark that is outperformed in every way by at least one of the other two. Except Hellbores, those have legitimate advantages and disadvantages
These are just ideas I thought to be useful.
I just find it sad that such a cool weapon feels so awkward to play around, as I mentioned two times now.
Play with a Psyker or any other class that has instant horde clear and be constantly too late to the party as the horde is dead before you can get into position and start up the flamer. And if you are the only one seeing the horde or must deal with it, it means somewhere the other teammates encounter something much more awful than chaff and you are about to get hit in the back by a crusher.
Can we swap it for the one the scabs use?
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Flamer is pretty junk right now. It was nerfed in the past and then it got left behind in the dust when power creep buffed most of the enemies. Purgation staff still works because of infinite ammo and all of the various talents that buff soulfire, but flamer doesnât really have any of that. At most you can use chastise the wicked to make the flames a little armour piercing.
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