You seem to be missing the point

Just read the latest blog about crafting and future updates and I wanted to try and make something clear.

Thanks for trying to make it better and lessening some of the rng.

However, reading through it I feel like your missing the point people are trying to make about the state of the game, I also believe you’re not seeing how people actually play and adapt to your current system.

Lv1-30 has a clear goal, progression and purpose. There are minor goals, getting to next lvl and a new weapon mark unlock, there are major goals, unlocking a new perk choice and a pen ultimate goal of getting lv30.

Once you hit lv30 all of this goes away and the biggest issue of the game rears it’s ugly face. RNG.
It is everywhere and it doesn’t go away.

Rng works when it is coupled with actual progression, like the lv1-30 grind. It than becomes a minor goal, like overwatch loot boxes on level up.
People don’t play overwatch simply for the loot boxes at lvl up, but it becomes a minor goal when you might be one match from lvl. This is a decent use for rng, but it should never be the entire endgame grind.

Look at wow or any online game that uses reputation or faction vendors.
This is their pull to get people to play while adding rng as a minor and random occurrence to get a chance at something cool all the time.
If rng was the only way forward, no one would keep playing.

Case and point. Your players realized very early that completing missions isn’t the point of your endgame. The point of your endgame is logging in to look at the store and hoping for a decent lottery roll every hour.
This means less and less player retention as once you get to lv30, all you have is the store reset, that is your only purpose and progression.

Peolple have been whining and demanding crafting, not because they want more rng, but because we want purpose. We want minor, major and pen ultimate goals to build towards.

So, imo, stop trying to make a bad crafting system worse.
Either remove all the locking mechanisms so we can have purpose by building the weapon and build we want.
Or
Keep the rng and locked blessings but add reputation/faction vendors who sell the weapons and stuff we want.

Add a reward for playing, getting 10 tokens unlocks the next tier of this vendor.
Show us what that tier allows us to buy and what the next tier enables.
While having an rng loot and rng crafting parallel to this vendor grind allows us to “luck out” and maybe get something nice while working towards the next tier.

Another idea is using blessings and perk ranks as a challenge.
We unlock a blessing at rank1, and we gotta do challenges, maybe like 100headshots, in order to level up that blessing to rank 2.
This could be per weapon with smaller/short challenges or as a crafting unlock with longer challenges which can than be reblessed onto all our weapons.

Both of these give us purpose and a reason to keep paying and working towards more power, as well as gameplay changes of unlocking new blessings and using them to add build variety.

Purpose is what you wanna focus your gameplay grind and loop around and you are missing this very important point.

Rng is not purpose. It isn’t rewarding, it is just a side thing to feel better while working towards what you want.

As an example. Would you like it if your boss came to your desk at the end of the day with a twenty sided die and said,
“roll the d20, on nat 20 you’ll get paid for today, otherwise better luck tomorrow”
I doubt any workers would show up the following day. Which is the same thing happening to your player base.

You need purpose and goal.
Players will keep playing so long as they are working towards a goal they want, like improved gameplay, new gameplay or new content or story.
You have none of this and that is why people are leaving, review bombing and why the game doesn’t rear its ugly issues until lv30.

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If you want to make it clear, please reflect the actual subject of the discussion in the thread’s topic.

But they literally do in the next few lines. Make it clear that they missed the point, I mean.

You’re right, but I have to say this:

penultimate
/pɪˈnʌltɪmət/
adjective

last but one in a series of things; second last.
“the penultimate chapter of the book”

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i feel like im visiting alien world sorry op but im not in your camp i personally would like to thank FS for not including all that. i am stunned and a little sacared to see players asking for that sort of thing.

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Tbh i think you and dozens of others miss the point of the game.

The whole series is about its gameplay and that´s it. Neither both Vermintide titles nor Darktide are Looter-shooter, RPG´s or offer some sort of “Lootprogress”.
Yes Vermintide had red-items with godrolls while beating higher difficulties, but what´s the point? If anything they helped you to get 1% more to hit a breakpoint, which helped you to make runs, you´ve finished dozens of times already, even easier…
Otherwise the only point to collect red-items were the skins.

Also all the level 1-30 are nothing else than learning basics and classes. They could get ride of it and call it a day, it wouldn´t matter much. They could also get ride of all stats on weapons and let poeple pick what they want immediately. It wouldn´t change anything around the core-gameplay-loop, because you can clear damnation even with trashperks. Just make sure the weapon has atleast 70% damage or more.

All besides the core-gameplay is just made to keep some players engaging and reward them even after 100 sessions. Having something like reditems would kill the “purpose to play” for a lot of poeple, meanwhile others would be glad about it to minmax everything easier. So who should FS cater?

We already saw at Vermintide that the gameplay is great, but the players miss how the game works and that the endgame is nothing else but rinse & repeat meanwhile choosing your own challenge. That´s also a reasons why some achievements are made as they´re.

So whoever plays the tide-series for loot should probably start to play something different.
Of course they could rework everything to offer a proper progression-system, but it would include that higher difficulties will be locked even harder behind stats instead of skill.

The series is made to have fun (with friends) and to improve yourself gameplay-wise. If players can´t have fun without a goal or permanent rewards, then i feel sorry for them, because it sounds more like work than fun and i can´t get that so many players just can´t without them these days.
And as long as we´re not talking about speedruns, then maxing out everything is not needed aswell and focusing hard on it is just wasted time / efford in my eyes. Some others may enjoy it to works toward it, but then i would never recommend a tide-game. Better play Outriders or something similar which offers like 100+ more perks, traits and possible builds, meanwhile sitting on a gear-scaling difficulty-system.

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Thanks :+1:. Saved me doing it LOL

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It’d probably bring me back if they did remove all of that.

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I am assuming you haven’t hit level 30 yet? Once you do you will quickly find that you have lost the motivation to play on the character anymore. It feels pointless and there is no sense of progression and it doesn’t feel like there is any reason to progress either as there is effectively ZERO end game content.

i have all characters to 30 , 336 hours into the game and play at a guess 1-4 games a day still.

i love it , game of the year of 2022 for me even with all its flaws

can we consider what your saying here? sorry to single you out this is actually becoming a really common issue

you do not enjoy playing the game for the games sake, you need an extrinsic reward treadmill added to the game to provide extrinsic rewards.

so lets say they add all these extrinsic rewards you will now be willing to play a game you dont find interesting to earn rewards in a game you have no interest in playing.

something to consider?

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I personally only want maxed items so I can ignore the itemisation, because to me playing with subpar weapons doesn’t feel like I’ve reached the top of the game.

Again, with Vermintide 2, most of the surviving player base before the giveaway were plying even when there was no more item progression.

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