It’s got to balanced enough on recruit and vet that new players don’t get put off.
E.g the waystalker ammo nerf. Having every mob shot before you reach it if you aren’t playing elf was dispiriting for many new players.
Lvl 20 and 25 talents could be used to allow balance at both low and high difficulties maybe.
if a warning about FF were put into vet i suspect most new players would learn to zone it out. after all it means nothing, no one is actually damaged. then when they went to the next level of difficulty they have a more difficult time learning that FF really does damage.
Hit the nail on the head.
Not to mention it’s a co-op game. It’s not like you have a precious K/D to worry about or anything.
People parade over the scoreboard worse than moba players do kda
I dunno, could they zone it out and ignore it even better than the ignore absolutely no indicators or damage at present?
Veteran could have:
Just like in V1, we’re going to have a consistent stream of new players moving up in difficulty and going, “oh snap! there’s friendly fire?!? this is so hard!” because it wasn’t even a concept for consideration on the lower difficulties.
now you are just talking crap
Apologies. That wasn’t the intention. It was much more to state that there is a statistic that people have to look at for demanding balance. They arent indicitive to ability but it is something that happens. I havent seen a single post about balance that was actually discussed over where a screenshot of the scoreboard wasnt involved
Why does everyone have to keep moving up in difficulty? I don’t play this game because I want to worry about FF, I play it to have fun with my buddies.
Everyone certainly doesn’t have to, but the vast majority of the user base is going to at least try the next difficulty level at some point, if not active attempt to increase the challenge level.
Alright, so if they genuinely want to try a harder difficulty, why is it the inclusion of FF that makes them stop trying? They’ll either welcome the new challenge and adapt or they won’t play that difficulty with or without FF.
I don’t find it fun.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed a lot of Cata in V1 and will most definitely be hanging out in Champion (maybe Legend?) in V2, but I never liked FF. Didn’t like it in L4D/2 either. FF removes too much clutch-potential that could result in great memories of the game. “Remember the time that SV was gonna chop you in half in Morr’s Hedgemaze but my fireball blasted him at the last minute?” What does FF give us in return, besides more realism in a game about killing ratmen? Some minute amount of elevation to the game’s already-limitless skill-ceiling?
Pass, I’d rather take the good fun and memories.
Again, it’s not going to stop me, personally, but Friendly Fire is an extremely potent turn-off to me, a lot of my friends, and I’d wager a lot of other people.
That’s a very common theme I see that “if we make the game too easy nobody will play it,” instead of what’s going to happen where if it’s “easy” in certain aspects they’ll be able to play at the higher levels. I don’t get it. I don’t get why rookie has to be tedious to boot. But there’s a very vocal crowd that thinks anything that makes the game easier (or differentiates classes) is OP and should be removed in all but name.
Appreciate the response, bit of a shock tbh!
I get what you are saying with the original post but the problem that is does actually need the balance for the lower difficulties because that’s what many people will play, players can’t be penalised for this.
I love games harder, throw as many challenges at me as possible but the majority of people I know (some are actually very skilled players) do prefer a different pace when it comes to PVE.
If someone is overgeared and doing easy content, it sucks if you get caught up in that vortex when it’s not what you want (when doing quickplays) but as you said - it can be fun doing this for a laugh/relaxation.
FF on vet would be good to get people used to harder content/at least the option to include it would be a nice touch. It should be optional, give people flexibility in what they want.
I can’t speak for others but for the group of 3 I play with, we went on vet the second our powerlevel allowed it, we manually search for every tome/grim and often replay multiple times until we find everything - we have learnt everything ourselves and will continue to do it this way. For us, we had not gotten that far in 5 hours, content becomes challenging when we/or the bot does stupid stuff. Our power levels were not that high (saving boxes) but this is the way we want to do it and honestly, feel we will actually get far more from the game doing it this way.
One of the biggest issues on this forum, more than any other i’ve seen - is when someone makes a post and gives ZERO regard to the bigger picture or anyone else’s option (this isn’t specifically aimed at you Robin).
Honestly that’s how I feel too. Putting FF in veteran doesn’t make the game more enjoyable, and its not making people any more wiling to play in harder difficulties. It’d probably result in me being stuck having no fun in recruit for being too easy and having no fun in veteran for having a mechanic that simply isn’t fun.
If people were “meant” to play in harder difficulties, why even bother putting a difficulty option in?
FF promotes team-work instead of blind spamming, FF promotes strong AOE items/abilities that would otherwise be completely cheap/unfair.
It’s not a high FF ratio. If FF is hurting your game then it’s probably because in your game people are shooting more at each other than at the enemies.
I get all of that…
…I also find it significantly unfun and unrewarding as a mechanic. And where I come from, games are meant to be fun. I would be more than willing to trade that slight minutiae of increased teamwork requirements for a bit more fun in this otherwise-perfect gameplay.
i laughed at this… thanks lol… i agree with you
hello,
I can’t agree more. You are totally right.
I’ll add the fact that playing should be build around rewarding, not punishing.
Why the hell so few extremist of ultrahard / punishing gameplay want that most ppl play this way ?
There are four difficulties.
Each one has its own perspective.
More choice = more fun / more freedom.
Let the ultraskilled gamers / elitist / masochist / sadistics play in legendary.
Let play skilled ppl in Champion
Let play average gamers in veteran.
Let play beginners in recruit.
THE WAY IT WAS, damned.
Personnally, if i really want to fight against consistent / persistent difficulty, i stop playing and work to achieve something in real life.
And please oh please, oh dear Fatshark, dont ruin the game by listening to the 5% of gamers who spent their time to ask for more difficulty, more punishment, without any tolerance for the vast majority of ‘average’ gamers, like me.
I’m tired to see so many games ruined by absurd difficulty settings, just because the more active ppl on forum just ask for something harder than harder.
asking for FF on recruit (really just asking for hit markers) that does 0 damage so that ppl are aware of the mechanic isn’t going to change recruit. and doing 1 damage a hit on vet will hardly make a difference either. i think it’s crazy that you don’t know about FF till champion games. i was a player that would blast through my teammates b/c it didn’t matter since there was no FF, then once i start champ all of a sudden i’m killing my teammates and thought they were dying to the increased damage from the mobs (i play listening to music not sound on so never heard the characters voices yelling at me lol.) but if i knew from the start of the game i couldn’t shoot through them or that shooting them caused damage i would have always made an effort to avoid doing it
I don’t think so. Veteran is still a bit of a challenge but more relaxing when you don’t have to worry about shooting a teammate and listening to them complain. Friendly fire doesn’t even do hardly any damage on Champion, and if you complain about getting shot now and then you need to calm down. Unless a teammate literally killed you while white, there’s no justification for the complaint. SO really Champion is the friendly fire that gets you prepared for Legendary where FF damage can actually matter.