WoM Community Poll

Didn’t vote for weaves and specific because preorders/early access is bad practice, but overall some changes are great some are strange and beastmen still need some fine tuning (its only horde that is dangerous, they are faster both in atk spd and normal speed, hit harder and its harder to see their animation)

2 Likes

Also, if you guys don’t mind. Let me know of any other issues that might need a poll for the end of beta follow up.

2 Likes

Steam review of Vermintide 2 has gone from Mostly Positive to Mixed in ONE DAY. The polling here is, of course, as a result of the most engaged players. We also are much more likely to get to the nuggety-heart of the issues whereas most players will just tell everyone they know the combat sucks and leave.

Hence the reviews.

5 Likes

Despite my complaints, I actually like more than I dislike for this expansion. I currently dislike the weaves as it stands now, but I enjoy a number of other things.

I have mixed feelings on the stagger. They’ve done a better job than the prior beta in explaining it, for sure. It’s still complicated for most players I think. Like, it doesn’t seem to affect ranged weapons so the 7% power talent ends up being better for a player primarily using ranged combat. The stagger talents like Assassin are a little simpler because you either get +20% more damage against a staggered enemy or you get just +40% for headshots or crits or enemies with more than one stagger count. You apply an additional stagger count by simply attacking a staggered enemy. There’s not a whole lot to it. I’d even be up for making a video if the mod for damage numbers of enemies was working. Doesn’t seem to be though.

Beastmen are improving bit by bit with their changes. They’re getting more visible with their designs so they “pop” a bit better on your screen. The glowing eyes in the dark is really nice. I think they could still use a bit more distinction with bestigors and wargors. Those two still blend a bit because they’re so dark.
The banners are complete game enders if you get caught in tunnel portions of maps and players have no means to reach it. I think toning down the effects of the banner a bit would help. On higher difficulties the effects feel so intense that they can seem invincible at times(enemies affected by banner).
The audio for beastmen is just not there. The banner groups and all that is prominent and seems good now audio-wise. The minotaur just does not have much in the way of audio cues at all. In general, the minotaur does a poorer job at telegraphing for players than all the other bosses. Audio changes would probably fix that though. It would help players distinguish the different attacks and make it less silent. Beastmen will sneak up on you so fast because they’re so quiet. You’d think they’d be noisier.

Most talents seem good. Some talents were replaced with worse ones. A good chunk seem like they need adjustments. E.G. Shade got her 30% CDR talent replaced with a 45% CDR talent but the 45% version gives you no bonus damage. Why would I ever want to replace talents and sacrifice that monstrous damage for a mere 15% difference? Just give the old CDR talent back.

I have usually played with THP on kill in the past so THP feels fine for me. A lot of the other ones have never felt great, so I imagine that’s why it doesn’t feel any different to me. I just haven’t changed what I’ve been doing and haven’t played long enough to get around to trying everything.

Weaves. Needed an “all of the above” vote. I currently have no interest in weaves. Portraits are nice. But the grind is not. Like I’ve mentioned before, they have an incredible crafting and weapon aesthetic locked behind weaves. It’s what people wanted but they tease you by putting it behind weaves.

Dodge actually feels better than it ever has. Enemy behavioral changes have undoubtedly helped with that.

Unrelated to the poll choices, I enjoy the challenges brought on by changes. Increased specials, the consistency of difficulty bumps, events being buffed. The new weapons I like. Love new audio lines, as always. It’d just be nice if FS finally fixed some of the things like phantom swinging on dual weapons(SnD, DnD).

6 Likes

That’s just it. I’m still biased in my belief that everything from the ground up was redesigned in service of stagger-damage, so it’s hard to answer. I think the idea is cool, but maybe a little unnecessary. I think completely redoing the game is risky as heck. And I am also wondering what will happen to the state of balance.

Like, we have this very powerful core mechanic, but the stats of enemies were all adjusted accordingly so I don’t actually feel the difference in the hits to kill an enemy. I can’t see the advantage of this system while I am in game. I don’t hate it, but I don’t get it.

4 Likes

Stagger mechanic exist in its own realm.
So, as I understand. There are really 3 options at all.
Assassin for overall dmg boost.
Mainstray for elite killing with heavy weapons.
7% power for whatever ranged purposes you may need it

When it comes to hordes it doesnt really matter if you have to hit target 3.2 or 3.5 times to kill.
I.e. no real breakpoints achieved through stagger talents cause of overall fight inconsistency

  • There are crits and headshot which are not always reliable
  • There are hidden properties on weapons. And those properties not even tied to all of weapon attacks!
  • There are SwiftSlaying procs which may allow you strike during stagger and deal increased damage, or lack of such may lead you to starting from 0 again.
  • There are overstagger states, when target you trying to hit fall down in 20 meters behind others in a horde meatwall and no longer reachable
  • There are teammates hitting same target as you
  • There are bosses which can be staggered only for that long and you cant really deal much damage in that time, unless you have mindcontrol over your teammates, which play around you

Adding to that real lack of possibility to even make something to give visual information, what damage you will deal to the target, is it enough to kill or not, Im ending up swinging at dead bodies for too long sometimes, and dwarf already getting drunk in that time.

This is way far beyond confusing. This is hell of a mess.

3 Likes

I would like to know how people felt about the power granted by the new 5 levels. At first, playing legend with level 30 seemed to be a death sentence. When reaching level 35 it was back to “normal”, except for all the tweaks of course.

3 Likes

There is one talent you haven’t mentioned- Smiter, is works on bosses, ofc for a melee weapon only. I found it pretty useful for low-cleave weapons, not saying lots of them are a good choice but still.

1 Like

Assassin is better for bosses? No?

no like new talent. some of me builds don’t work no more

cant tell dodge difference.

i dont really do much shoving so i dont get much of the dmg boost from stagger.

Assassin is better if you’re getting crits or headshotting a lot - but Smiter will be more consistent, though Assassin is available on far fewer characters.

1 Like

The flat power boost of 7% is a nice middle ground as well. It falls in between smiter and bulwark in terms of dps. 7% will get you more first hit damage on hordes compared to the other two. As smiter will only effect the first mob hit. It’ll also improve your ranged damage and fall just below bulwark on full stagger damage.

Edit: I think it’s called bulwark, the one that does 60% more on full stagger?

1 Like

I’m really enjoying the patch so far.
Stagger and combat changes have made 2h hammer into god-tier weapon and I love it, because I generally always wanted to run around with it.
What I don’t really like are standart bearers. Why? Meet one of those in a confined space with no hero with charge ability and the end result is wipe. A shitton of beastmen and Skaven rushing at you, getting healed and with extra resistance? How about no. But hey, maybe I’ll find some effective way of coping with such situations.

The lack of THP makes this game a bit too difficult sometimes, though.

1 Like

Just to clarify, flags will only work on beastmen. Not the other races.

2 Likes

I feel like a number of these ought to have been multi-answer polls (at least the dislike ones) to be more representative.

Also the disliking stagger one should’ve included concerns over game balance/weapon meta as an option.

Captain Hindsight awaaaay

3 Likes

For sure. I’ll switch it up a bit for the next one.

At the same time, I didn’t want multiple choice. I want people to pick the issue that is bothering them the most, or tell us about it. Same reason why I didn’t put a neutral for like/dislike. I want people to pick which ever one they even slightly lean more towards.

3 Likes

Mixed on Stagger

Should not have been implemented on Horde (slaves, clanrats, fanatics). The HP boost and stagger resistence makes them take far too long. Levels are tedious.

I DO like it on elite enemies, it makes them a real a threat and taking them down is satisfying.

Dislike Beastmen

The headbuts are infuriating, they come out of nowhere with no warning and interupt whatever I was doing. I just want to range them all down to avoid the BS. Fortunately I can always have a flame thrower now because…

Dislike Dodge Changes

I have perpetually bad ping because USA internet providers are monopolistic trash that won’t upgrade their networks. I’m basically forced to play Ironbreaker or Unchained now because avoiding damage is impossible I have no choice but to soak it. Or I’m forced to host, which just makes everyone else deal with my bad ping.

Dislike Talent Changes

Throw the baby out with the bath water why don’t you? A lot of things were good and worked and they got trashed. The system was working really well, it only needed some fine tuning, now we are back at the “buggy, untested, unbalanced” stage. What a waste.

Dislike Weaves

Are you kidding? I have to work my butt off to unlock everything, then lose it all and have to do it again every season? Who in Hell’s warm and toasty pastures thought this was a good idea? If I’m going to do that much work I expect a pay check.

5 Likes

Just going to throw it out again that stagger could actually end up being great with the right tweaks, but I am not convinced they’re being made. A lot of the reasoning for people liking it is that it brings the feel of the game back towards VT1. A lot of the complaints regarding it, though, are because of how ponderous the game has suddenly become, on top of the stacking issues and not being able to parse a dozen pieces of information all at once, meta considerations, etc, etc.

Reduce the number of enemy units to compensate across the board(you know, like VT1). Make fights tough, but intimate. Attempting to dodge 3-4 enemies in a tighter window is much more reasonable than doing the same thing for who-knows-how-many all bunched up in an amorphous blob, as would be trying to block or shove them. Fighting smaller, tougher groups will then improve the pace of the game as well, maybe even give one-handed weapons a fighting chance since you aren’t suffering as heavily from lack of cleave as before. It’ll take pressure off of the stamina properties, diversify builds again, etc, etc.

I’m not even insinuating that you should make the game ‘easier’. I had advocated for early stagger systems, including the first beta pass, and wouldn’t necessarily have any issue with something like a chaos warrior being miniboss-tier levels of tough provided you didn’t see them in such regular bunches. Fewer enemies means they could be allowed to have more responsive AI and additional attacks, as well - organic improvements to difficulty.

As an aside, this also helps performance, which i’m seeing people complain about again. Just something to consider. I’m optimistic that somewhere down the line i’ll be convinced to drop the 20 bucks for the expansion, and I hope at that point these things are settled.

6 Likes

While I can see the merits of that too, I prefer having multichoice anyway because then it’s easier to see which of the options are actually important and which people don’t care about - if you have a bunch of pressing choices it ends up being whatever the most major one is, and you have no idea if the other ones even factor into most people’s like/dislike or not.

1 Like

Isn’t the 7% power boost also better if you’re using ranged more often?

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