I spent a few nights working on high difficulty missions, and got minimal rewards…
I speed ran a difficulty 1 mission with no modifiers and got a yellow drop with a rating of 507.
All that tells me is there is absolutely no point in playing higher difficulty to get better gear.
I kind of agree. If it was plain laziness they’d of just copy pasta the systems from Vermintide 2 since it worked well enough. So IMHO, I think they were trying to experiment and something went horribly wrong because the entire loot system is a grindy trash and frankly I don’t think the crafting system will fix it.
You play heresy and damnation to get penances locked to heresy and damnation. Also ordos to get skins. Ordo rises like hell with dificulty, but XP hardly doubles.
Current math and statistics suggests that it takes 50-100.000 resets of the shop to get a 380 weapon with the right perk (we’re not even talking a 380 weapon with the right stat weights). It’s done using a 27 reset dataset with 270 weapons, assuming that they always roll their max perk (but they don’t I can already see that) and presumes that we get to exchange all blessings (tho if perks are anything to go by, we probably won’t be able to)…
I’m currently collecting a dataset aswell over the next 9 days (I should hopefully land at or around 100 resets so 1000 weapons) and then I’ll see if I can confirm it after which I will take a much needed vacation in Thailand and not touch this game until I come home… For… More dataset gathering unless it’s changed by then… In any case here’s the time in… Years.
For a hardcore - 10-12hrs a day that’s between 4/5 to 8/10 years :).
For a casual - 2-3hrs a day that’s between 12/23 and 30/42 years.
Are you not having fun yet! Don’t you just love their “less RNG” more “player agency” they introduced to Darktide and that is using the current 1 perk can only be rerolled system including crafting to see if you get the right perk.
It is so beyond stupid… I don’t honestly know what to say. This is the exact method that mobile games use to make you pay for stuff in their MTX store to speed up the grind.
Look at TW and Killing Floor 2. They said in the beginning that payed items would only include cosmetics, and then look what happened. Some of the guns you could buy were borderline stupidly overpowered, but while they didn’t do good on their word and people did call them out on it, they only started doing so much, much later into the game’s lifecycle, and while I was unsatisfied with the game’s direction and left it be long before that happened, I am cutting them some slack due to the fact that they did deliver most of what was promised before they started adding p2w weapons - and most of them did get rebalanced.
I think here we have a company simply lying through their teeth, and it already starts to show how they are trying to downplay the lack of certain promised, heavily hinted at or at least reasonably expected features as “this game isn’t CoD lol” and “this doesn’t fit the setting lol”. They said they did not want to be predatory, yet there is zero other explanation for the timed items and the way Aquilas were packed. That shop had their priority at release before anything else, so it is very reasonable to assume it will have priority later on, too.
All of the design choices are deliberate, for one reason or another. Everything we have read so far was just PR-Mumbojumbo that, in my opinion, served only one purpose: To obfuscate that certain features are not there, nor will be, that there is absolutely no reason for certain things not working like they did in VT2 (we could switch heroes on the spot and have a shared invenvotry with absolutely no issue) and to be deliberately vague in certain aspects so people cannot claim stuff was promised.
There is more premeditation on their part than they would care to admit. That’s why they are keeping relatively quiet. They kinda have maneuvred themselves into a corner, PR-wise, because their PR-reps / community managers have already been caught lying (and being unnecessarily condescending and aloof while doing it) and they have realitvely little reason to believe they have much goodwill left.
I stand by my point that, from a “technical” point of view, the game is in a noticably better state as VT2 was when it launched. However, the state is still not acceptable and their track record does not inspire confidence that the majority of issues will be dealt with within a reasonable time-frame.
That is what I find so audacious: They knew the state of the game, they knew what they promised and without saying a word before release, they just rolled with it, hoping that their community will show the same understanding, lenience and patience they did with VT2. They put their money on people’s goodwill. This might have worked, if a certain CM would have watched their behaviour and what they said online a little better. It’s one thing to urinate on your customers, it is another to tell them it’s lemonade when they complain.
do you not follow the news?
But if they really continue the direction of the itemisation system as it currently is, that’s the line for me. I’ll literally just write a bad steam review and I’m done with the game.
Surprise me you haven’t.
While some of the issues in Darktide are bugs and lack of improvements that can be solved with time and development efforts, some are design decisions that you can see from the very first glimpse they are going to a direction that serves no player needs.
And when a design decision is made, it requires very strong feedbacks to push it back because the potential huge development efforts involved, time is money afterall.
TmanDW
I just can’t wrap my head around how a game studio can on one hand design a game with such fun, skill-driven, and diverse gameplay, and on the other hand designs systems to make it as frustrating and difficult as possible to experience that amazing variety. What the fück is the general design philosophy here?! It’s absolutely schizophrenic.
I honestly don’t care that the release has been a bit suboptimal so far, and that it all somewhat feels like an early release. The crafting system not being functional yet, not all weapons being out yet, even private lobbies not working yet, etc.: I honestly don’t mind. It’s Fatshark; this was even kind of expected. I like them as a game studio regardless (or maybe even because). If they need more time to fully release the entire game so that the fatsharks themselves don’t get overworked in a “crunch” and that everything is really solid once it’s eventually released, they can literally have another year or more and I won’t complain.
But if they really continue the direction of the itemisation system as it currently is, that’s the line for me. I’ll literally just write a bad steam review and I’m done with the game. To my suprise I find I’m really soured by it all. It’s literally just a game, and even if I walk away from it totally I’ll not lose much, so I don’t understand why I’m so aggrevated about Darktide so far. I just can’t really comprehend how FS is seemingly deliberately trying to sabotage a game they evidently put so much love into in such a stupid manner. I’m just flabbergasted.
thank you for putting it in words. i wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.
se05239
A competent crafting system, that allowed us to spend resources to modify the various bars, increase the item rating (to add more power to spend on improving the bars) and such would solve a lot of the issues. On top of rerolling traits and such…
kinda reminds me of a crafting system from another game, called vermintide: end times. dunno if anyone heard about it here. if only this game was made by the same developers so that they could mb learn from that game. oh well, a man can dream.
That system didn’t make the jump from V1 to V2 either, for shame. Instead you just rolled your properties and got the same combination 5 times in a row because RNG is the most game design ever or something.
The reason a lot of us is upset is that we like bits of the game, we want to like all of the game, but there are some parts that are so player/user hostile (and usually for no real reason, even counting in monetisation possibilities) that it’s frankly really jarring and disappointing when those bad parts pull us out of the game.
It never ceases to amaze me how absolutely stupid it is that a problem that was solved with the Weave crafting system keeps poking its ugly head again and again.
They solved the crafting issue from VT1/2 and for some ungodly reason decided to completely ignore it either due to overall player sentiment towards the fail that was the Winds of Magic expansion or due to pig headed team leads/designers.
Interesting…
They eventually added a bias where it would try to roll combos you hadn’t recently gotten. Why you couldn’t just reroll each property individually is still a mystery
But soon you’ll be able to do something similar, but only one of the perks, and it may brick your item if it wasn’t bricked straight out of the box. Always one step forwards, two steps back.
V2 Athanor > V1 > V2 > DT. At this point they’re about 24 steps behind.
I’ve been waiting a week since they buffed heavy stubber to roll one over 300 power, it seems like its good damage wise now its just the gross trigger delay that even applies to special attacks holding it back. I laugh at the notion of them dropping new weapons for Ogryn, I’ll never see those either.
To give some perspective on these doomsaying posts: I have around 150 games played (in total) with 3 classes. I have pretty good weapons on all of them that I can run damnation with, with the playstyle I want to play.
What I’m lacking: A good Thunder Hammer to try out, Kantreal XII with good blessing (on vet), a plasma rifle with good blessing, a really good void strike staff, and a good Force sword with Deflection. Could also use a better bolter on the veteran but the current one does the job.
Most of what I’m lacking will be fixed when the crafting system (that was promised to be in on launch) will be finally implemented. They just need to implement crafting finally and make the shop refreshable with gold and complaints could go away… Apart from those people who just couldn’t live without absolutely maxed-out gear, because they just have to have it.
It’s nice for you that you’ve been somewhat lucky so far, and have multiple decent items. But I’m getting really tired of people repeatedly strawmanning those pointing out that the current item distribution system is flawed to actually just be whining for free maxed out gear. So either work on your reading comprehension, or stop argueing in bad faith.
The problem is that there is no correlation between effort and progress / item quality, and that one is completely dependant on RNG for which weapon type you get when you even get a good roll. You’ve had Ranald on your side; well good for you. But you pointed out the problem yourself as well: There apparently are still items you’d like to try out, but don’t have yet. So, what’s your plan to get a well rolled staff, for example? I’ll tell you: You are going to wait until the RNG shop deigns to give you one. And there is literally nothing you can do apart from waiting until it does. You can play 50 rounds daily, or none at all. You can do Dambation, get all the secondary objectives etc., and it wouldn’t matter one bit. Either the game gives you the staff you want, or it doesn’t. You have to recognise that as a bad thing, right? Wouldn’t it be infinitely better if you could at least work towards that staff somehow instead? Not given freely, but at least have a path of effort → reward for it, I mean.
My point is that even if the current system would literally shower you with 10 god roll item every hour, it would still be a shït system. The absolute reliance on RNG and thd complete dissociation between effort and reward is just plain dumb. Regardless whether the current system is too stingy with good gear or not: If thd game wants me to play before I get good stuff at least give me some fücking agency while I do that.
What part of…
…you didn’t understand?
It wasn’t a strawman, it was a bit of a sting toward people who make posts about this kind of stuff at the end of my comment. If you don’t want weapons with all 80% or all 100% stats I’m not talking about you. If you are fine with a weapon in 330-360 base point range with decent distribution, I’m not talking about you.
If your problem is Playtime /= Chance for better gear then shop reset with in-game currency and maybe a chance to tag 1 or 2 weapon types to always appear should fix your problem. With that system, if you aren’t in the 1/100.000 super unlucky camp you should be able to get a good weapon in a reasonable time.
The whole item system in this game is just … boring in the end.
After playing the beta and reading a lot of different posts, a lot of thing becomes very clear to me.
What we want:
We want to have fun while playing and i belive we deserve to have fun if we do so.
A rewarding (just need to feel like it is one) system is always the best way to make players happy and want them to come back and play more.
If this all is to much or doesn´t fit you plans for the game …
Add a simplyfied game mode so we can play the game like L4D. Just 2 tiers of weapons to chose from and ammo for everybody with nothing else.
The long term success of the game depends on the players and how they feel if the play it.
Just let us have fun … please.
I’m vacuum cleaning plasteel and diamantine on Damnation levels with a mobile build.
And it still takes me:
150( average) plasteel per run
Diamantine doesn’t matter
For a Gold weapon, you need 1300 plasteel (400 for purple 900 for gold assuming you start from blue)
1300/150 =9 (rounded up)
With an average completion time of 40 minutes (with loading screens and finding games instantly)
You need 9 games so 40min x 9 = 360min =6hours
I need to play SIX hours to get a weapon/curio from blue to gold.
And that’s if everything goes swimmingly well.
Now remind me how many weapons there are and how many builds I might want to try.
And do NOT remind me that we can’t reroll all perks and that we don’t even know about stat forging yet.
All I’ve done in 120h was craft curios to try to get good bases. Forget it.
RNG fiesta.
Designers: have you really tested this? Is this intentional?
I like having a reason to explore the level. I hate having to dedicate my life to a game.
You’d think playing a higher difficult would grand better rewards. But this is clearly a work in progress.
(I’m getting Cataclysm reward déjà-vu)
And that’s not even thinking Grims/Tomes.