Besides Onslaught being the single best talent for automatic weapons in the game? Additionally both Reciprocity and Skirmisher are decent. As well as taking survivalist, and getting precision strikes.
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That’s it?
Onslaught is good, but where it helps I don’t even need it on Zealot, and having an actual constant +35-45% close-range damage boost goes way harder for braced auto guns.
You also have have FtoF for an immediate full rend for 5 seconds if you want it, not like you need it that much.
Reciprocity is fine, but skirmisher is a piece of crap that stacks incredibly slowly, and when you stop sprinting you have very little time left to use it. It’s incredibly situational and really bad.
That’s a good node.
We are talking right-side build, but even then… Do you know what’s better than playing Vet with Survivalist? If you don’t have to be the Vet on that team.
I mean seriously Survivalist is great. Have a VoC support Vet with it and my Zealot is immediately infinite ammo.
Yeah sorry still not seeing it. In the best-case scenario it’s a tiny bit better on the range and that’s it while being slower, a lot more fragile, and worse in melee.
I’d happily give up Onslaught for any of the key defensive nodes Zealot has. Thy Wrath will be swift (Cannot be stunned), Always dodging while sprinting (with a whopping +10% sprint speed), and alike. Hell, I’d give up onslaught on a melee build for just Anoit in Blood.
Last I checked reciprocity only procs on dodging melee attacks, not ranged, reported it back during patch 13 and was acknowledged but haven’t seen a patch note for it so I assume this is still the case. Doesn’t make it bad per se but it’s a lot less good than the description suggests.
@Nish I’d add infinite grenades and VoC to the list of things a melee focuses Vet build has which are unique strengths. Those both go incredibly hard. Hopefully after the next patch we can squeeze in enough important talents to get back to late patch 13 melee Vet strength. I definitely agree it’s worse now than it was.
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I was arguing with “think of it as a hybrid playstyle” line. VoC and Infinite Kraks are definitely good, even if both lost power.
The lost elite damage and Ogryn/boss damage impacted right side build melee build very hard, and the pathing is a lot worse currently (having to pick up extra tax nodes). I also hope the next iteration will be a bit better, and less taxing, although 2 fewer tax nodes is the bare minimum to make it competitive I think.
I think we will get some balance changes with the patch too which can also heavily influence the outcome. I guess we’ll see how it turns out.
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But vet plays extremely different when doing melee, he hits very hard and rends. But hes generally slower all around and less survivable. Its very different and i like it.
Iunno about all that. I have a dagger melee build on Vet, and Zealot now. It’s not an apples to oranges kind of deal it’s more of an apples to A10 warthog.
The 60% crit rate on my sh*tty little blue dagger with Blazing Piety is out performing my veterans 378 giga chad double t4 dagger, and it’s not even close. I don’t even have uncanny strike on the dagger yet for the crazy rending on the Zealot. She has crazy up time on her ulty because of the crit CDR (don’t have the backstab one yet) meaning I don’t ever have to back off of ragers which is not something I can say about Vet at all who relies entirely on his VoC to knock them down to get some bleeds in.
She’s under 30, and already deletes bosses in melee harder than my vet.
Granted not entirely the fairest comparison as I haven’t done aurics with her yet, but that’s because the game literally won’t let me, but I think the blue gear vs the full transcendent with t4 blessings/perks kind of evens that out a tad.
Maybe with Power Sword thrown into the equation things are a bit more even, but then I’d have to play with Power Sword and feel like I’m moving through molasses.
At the very least dagger to dagger Zealot absolutely kicks the everloving p*ss out of Vet in melee.
TL;DR Tankiness = damage for the purposes of melee, and crit rate is nuts. Have not tested martyrdom yet. I’m still allergic to the idea of wound curios.
EDIT: Perhaps I’m in the honeymoon phase for Zealot. You’ve certainly played the game more than me so you might be correct, or the I’m not good enough in melee to get the most value out of vet.
It sure feels easier if nothing else.
makes me curious what is the right class for melee , in your opinion?
Vet may need elite kills to regen toughness, but IMO vet can pretty easily stack his effective toughness damage reduction values to some pretty silly values. Iron will does a lot of the heavy lifting, but he has some sweet TD reduction talents scattered around.
the vet. needs. sustained. fire. back.
unless they’re gonna give us some other gimmick that’s more fun than highlighting enemies, then this class will continue to be boring and generic af. i can’t even remember the last time i saw a stealth vet in either bring sustained fire back or let the vet carry 2 ranged weapons lol they should also do something about the smoke grenade because that thing is ass.
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Can I ask why you think that?
I never ran sustained fire, even when the bolter was stupid op. Even now I really don’t see why it would be so great, outside of Bolters, shotguns and Revolver.
Does auto reloading the weapon not make it boring and generic? Vet is the guy who shoots things class.
I hate it but I play with people who swear it’s goated so 
Finesse damage scales all crits, and weakpoints regardless of whether the weapon has a visible finesse stat. That or the left veteran keystone does literally nothing.
EDIT: Clarity.
Regarding the impact talent I also have to ask if you’ve actually tested it, or ran the numbers regardless it might not make a difference on the dagger but I’m almost certain it could do something on the tac axe which does stagger many things with its special. Keyword: COULD.
The possibility, or keyword: COULD does not exist with shocktrooper.
It could easily work with an ICD based on the clip size of the weapon. Smaller clip = longer ICD. There is already an ICD in current version so rapid fire weapons don’t have infinite ammo for the weird hypothetical you brought up.
Plasma having a massive ammo pool being the outlier for this balance would not be as impactful as you think either. The thing already has 45 shots per magazine (battery?). Most encounters do not remotely require that many. Even with amazing heat management for optimal crit you’re looking at around 70 shots instead if you’re super lucky.
Also I don’t think obsolete means what you think it means.
Every weapon has every stat. The stat bars shown are arbitrarily decided by the dev that designed the weapon.
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True. I worded that incorrectly.
EDIT: Fixed it with one word.
well that’s the beauty of it, isn’t it? the ability to choose it if you are using a bolter, or a shotgun, or a revolver, or whatever, and want the option of putting torrent of lead down range. sustained fire was extremely fun to use because it was satisfying af turning everything in front of you into a pink mist.
you’re misunderstanding what i mean by, “boring and generic”. i’m not saying there needs to be something brand new to the genre but it should stand out in its own way that sets it apart from the other classes within this game, while being fun. the fact that the vet’s identity should be, “the guy that shoots things”, it’s got nothing that makes that aspect particularly fun, or that dials in on that to make it enjoyable or satisfying. do you think highlighting enemies is especially fun and engaging? literally play every other class because they can do it, too, except they have actual abilities that are fun to use on top of that.
when you see a horde coming at you, what aspect of, “the guy that shoots things”, does the shout fulfill? or does stealth fulfill? for a class that should revolve around shooting things, why is it missing a basic, “rambo”, playstyle? does that not sound like something the vet should just have by default?
do you play with thousands of people that think the stealth vet is the best class in the game right now? hundreds? a dozen even? then it doesn’t really mean anything because the majority of people who play it don’t view that way. so, then, what? 3 of your 4-man squad are running stealth vet on auric stuff on the regular? well congrats, you’re playing with all of 'em lol
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Nothing Burger post.
It’s only one optional talent, it doesn’t affect autoguns in any negative way.
Oh look its the unpopularity of a thing means its bad arguement. Smokes and stealth may or may not be good but this is not a good arguement.
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Ogryn has some explosive radius, 5 hits/shot (bugged) and reload spam talents.
Thank you for saying what I no longer have the strength to do.
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Agreed. The talent should either be changed to so that crits across the board don’t consume ammo, or weakspot kills have a 50% chance of not consuming ammo, or hell, possibly have a node for each of these. Confining this ability to las weapons is silly.
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wth are you even talking about? lol who said it was bad? i sure didn’t. i said it wasn’t the best in the game.
now go get a towel and wipe that egg off your face.
look, i hate to interrupt you two love birds, but aren’t you the one who asked me the questions to begin with? lol
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lmao damn 
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