Bad hit registration is rampant since last patch for some reason, Vermintide always has had problems with it but right now it’s dreadful. Especially annoying with Kruber when a charge doesn’t register and a CW (or any mob for that matter) ignores it and smacks you in the face.
Along with clipping issues when a foe runs towards you, a hit isnt registered, they clip through you and hit you in the back. And of course the range inconsistency of their attacks.
Cant empathize on this enough - it DEFINITLY happens but only since 1.0.4? Its extremely annoying for melee classes swinging at a room filled to the brim with rats and just hit air.
Nerf melees. They decimate everything in the game…
Great video
Rather go with bots than play legend with full ranged team.
100% agree. Waystalker, IB with pistols, Pyro, BH due 2 still existing, after 2 patches bugs (melee switch for infinite passive and every arrow in crossbow crit count as separate crit). All this classes have literally infinite ammo. This turn game into Modern Verminfire and kill all the fun. Nerf overheat classes, remove ammo regeneration from waystalker, fix BH bugs!
I agree. Crowd pg feel useless…
How anyone could argue against this after experiencing champion, let alone legend, clearly doesn’t care about game design or balance.
Look at how many sub classes are in inferior to the meta, then compare those to their range classes. It’s ridiculous.
You only need ONE melee, and that’s just if you want them. Four ranged (lol IB Drakefire, guess you’ll get the super tank too) are more than enough with
1.) Bounty Hunter with their bug/exploit switch to melee before hit Xbow for free shots, especially when they clearly have a macro doing all the work. Even without the above, again, near infinite ammo with pretty good melee.
2.) Pyro, not even accounting for it’s absurd Beam staff. The class does it all without it or not. The bolt staff is nearly as good. Best ult. 99% up time on staff.
3.) Waystalker - Spear, second best weapon behind Halberd, infinite ammo.
and the best of all, Ironbreaker - who can take out those two pistols and go to town with infinite ammo, and non existent cooldown and won’t feel as useless as any other melee class while the other ranged nuke everything.
It’s going to happen if this game wants any sort of balance. I’m all for buffs first, but in this case it wouldn’t change much if you buffed melee or other classes. There is too much ammo and no heat cooldown for these classes.
Well to be honest it was the same in V1. Drakefire guns were there, the secondary was even stronger. Elf and wizard had a very good range clearing , trueshot was omnipresent. Saltz had his volleycrossbow to kill pats / ogres. Kruber had… kruber had… dps for ogre or handgun to snipe specials and well… he was mainly melee and yet he was picked consistently. I wonder why, maybe because the playerbase changed. They go for kills, most dmg in team, most green circles at end screen. It nearly seems like it is a challenge, and oh i love the duels between wizard and elf, both charging and running through the map to get more kills just to die and cause a wipe.
But you did need melee in V1, because there was such a mass horde that you really had trouble clearing it range only. (and the beamstaff shotgun crashed more drachenfels runs than all crashes from release together)
Im pretty sure the main issue are the flamethrowers. They might be nice and something new, but the basic horde enemies were normally the job of the melee guys with cc, while ranged focused on specials, sniping, dps for ogre and assisting.
The beamstaff blast is nothing new to vermintide, but temporary hp vent and the crit reduce heat are simply too strong for this specific weapon, meanwhile other ranged weapons have nearly no use of any trait aside from 2 ammo per headshot.
I absolutely love krubers 25 talent no stamina cost after ult, you ult in and tank the whole horde for a few seconds, before you use all stamina for cc, then a wild elf appears and runs in the horde as melee too and dies… I nearly feel as if newer players dont even get the basic concept of melee combat anymore, since it was never needed lvling the elf / wizard / whatever specific build they were going for.
Melee is not useless, its the core and we all know that. Op stated that melee feels useless, and hes right. In certain setups you are only the panic button to jump in when hell breaks lose, which is kinda fine regarding the playstyle, but totally boring for the player. Buff the handgun and kruber has an amazing anti special tool as he did before, nerf the damage on the horde clears and youll have a more melee focused gameplay in a second, but you will have to play with the consequences - more melee - higher risk of taking dmg / cc will be needed and that means same combos over and over again / members positioning badly / chasing solo kills will be even more deadly.
The basics for melee centered games are there, probably even stronger than in v1, people simply chose range over melee because it grants easier runs and more personal kills.
I think the stats end screen was the worst thing they did in the whole V2, because it does highlight and compare numbers between classes with different tasks and is totally irritating. Show only your personal scores and ppl will play differently , their weak points will be damage taken, and not how many kills are missing to be n1.
I dunno what you remember about V1
But a Swiftbow with Scavanger never ran out of ammo, and actually had MORE than in V2
Same with a Brace of Pistols that had Scavanger and Rupture.
There were tons of cheezy ranged things in V1?
Wanna know the BIGGEST melee issue? Slow swing speed on most weapons, you can’t get a green with swift slaying anymore, as well as Chaos mobs taking more hits than their skaven counterparts.
I can 1 shot a Slave rat with a single swing of an axe, yet need 2 hits on a zombie to take it down. I have almost 600 hero power and still find myself needing 2 or more hits per chaos to one on skaven. Issue vanishes when I shoot them in the head with arrows/ bolts/ bullets.
Pretty much. It seems like a lot of the things people say about “VT1 did better” or “This wasn’t this way in VT1” have a bit of foggy memory of what VT1 was like. The enemies are pretty different and the threats you deal with have evolved in VT2. Also, having ways of refilling ammo and going on a shooting bananza was just as much a thing in VT1 as it is in VT2.
Balancing and bug fixing is still going on with VT2. I’d give it at least another 2-3 weeks while they fix a lot of issues. Another reason people might avoid melee at times is because:
“Phantom swings” are a thing. You swing your melee and no hit is registered.
Melee takes more skill to effectively pull off and is riskier. The risk is further enhanced due to “phantom swings”.
An example of balance would be the notorious beam staff. It’s certainly too strong at the moment and could use small, gradual nerfs to get it to where it should be. The other staves aren’t bad; the beam staff is just over-tuned, that’s all. You have to keep that in mind and understand that as these balance changes and bug fixes come to fruition, it will change how people play. Making dramatic changes, especially before bugs are fixed, is unwise. I understand that people are going to abuse things like that. You’ll always have those people(just like meta-sheeple who conform to what they’re told is the meta and refuse to try anything else). But it’s also important to avoid a yo-yo effect with balance.
I certainly don’t feel useless when meleeing, but I understand why a number of people do. Like danccicoalex said, the end screen definitely makes a lot of people feel less useful. People take it to heart too much rather than as a “Oh that’s cool” screen. I think in time things will be adjusted and people will probably feel better about melee. In fact, in the bugs forum there have been more than one instance developer responses saying that the patch coming this next week should fix a number of issues(like phantom swinging).
The ideal shouldn’t be small gradual nerfs to eventually get it to balance. The ideal should be to nerf it once to get it to balance. Something as OPAF as the beam staff needs a significant but reasonable nerf not small gradual nerfs.
Given the current state that the beam staff is at, I can totally agree there. I’d imagine that Fatshark has a decent idea on where it should be nerfed/balanced to and from there, they can adjust as need be(if it even needs to). I was actually surprised at its damage before seeing it first-hand. During the beta it was actually pretty balanced, if not a bit under-powered. After release, it seemed to really spike through the roof.
Im feeling the same and its really desesperating. You cant predict at all anything or counter an attack.
Ranged pg have melee crowd control weapons and can kill “crowd enemies” with one hit… it is logic that melee pg feel useless.
I disagree with the notion that melee is useless. However, it might appear that way at the moment since ranged seems to be a bit too prevalent. Let me expand on the last part a bit.
Most of the issues with ranged are down to a few combinations of traits, skills and weapons that were probably never intended in their current form by the devs. Lets take the bounty hunters blessed shots combined with the repeater handgun and some skills that lower the cooldown on blessed shots/the skill where blessed shots procs after getting a single melee kill on a slave rat.
When thinking about blessed shots, no other weapon would really break that skill at any level even close to the repeater handgun, since we would be talking about a single shot which, in the long run, wouldnt make such a big difference.
The same thing goes for Sienna. If we ignore the obviously overpowered beam staff(and some of its traits which also cause issues combined with certain skills) here for a moment, the only real problem is that it is too easy to vent. You get a bunch of kills, whether that be with the flamethrower, the fireball staff or whatever else, accumulate some temp hp, vent for 1sec and then get your temp hp back that you lost while venting by killing some more stuff. Making temp hp inaccessible for venting or slowing down the process, so it doesnt take 1sec, is really all you need.
Then we get to the waystalker and the crazy good synergy between something like a swift bow and her ultimate, which will grant you 20%(?) of your max ammo back everytime you use it. Youll practically never run out of ammo. Problem is that its not a fixed number, its a percentage. Meaning that for as good as this might be for something like a swift bow, its absolutely negligible for something like a hagbane, since that one has less base max ammo to begin with. Nerfing the skill might also nerf other weapons that really dont deserve the nerf to begin with so youve gotta be careful what you ask for here. In a perfect world, it would be a fixed value for every individual weapon, as well as for other characters too(crit trait on beam, combined with less heat for crit -> sienna anyone?). Problem is that this takes a long time and tons of testing for fatshark so if we are to see it, it wont be soon.
Last but not least, we get to the ironbreaker. Why the “tank” class got the best ranged choices for the dwarf is honestly beyond me. Simple fix here could be to just move the drakefire pistols over to the ranger. Might not be too lore friendly in a way, but it would make the ranger more likely to be picked and remove the issue with the ironbreaker being a no brainer pick atm. No need to change any of the weapons.
Thing is, right now if youve got a half decent team running all ranged or 3 ranged and one melee guy for emergency clutch is all you need to get through a level fast and almost unharmed. You dont need to be jsat to pull that one off. All you need is some basic skills and a bit of communication/coordination with your team. Ppl dont just die like that. They start wiping when they get too kill hungry and run off by themselves or if they aggro a chaos patrol during a horde.
Its not a no brainer to run ranged only, as some ppl would suggest. Its also not useless to run a melee focused team with only some ranged mixed in. The real problem is that running ranged only is much easier and faster and as such will likely be the preferred method by a big chunk of the community who just want to level and gain loot as fast as they can. Melee also takes a bit more skill to some degree, seeing as you have to time your dodge and block right and your positioning in general is a tiny bit more important, so you dont get instantly surrounded, the second you hit the first slave rat in the face. Why have headaches over all that if all you need to do is pick a ranged focused build and only switch to melee to block enemies that got too close and are in the middle of their attack animation already…
I suppose in the end, everyone has got to decide for themselves whether thats really fun to them and their preferred way to play the game. Just because something is currently too good doesnt mean you have to necessarily use it yourself. At least if you run the game with friends. Running with pubs might earn you a kick or two, depending on their levels of mlg pro toxicity. Those ppl running the game without a full group of premades are really the shafted ones here if they dont enjoy this kind of play.
I do just fine with melee.
I honestly feel like you crybabies need to git gud.
The only thing that annoys me about ranged is the bad ones that can’t aim and shoot you throughout the match.
Kruber player here. I believe there is no problem with melees.
However, Semela’s video shows the issues with ammo, or rather ammo regeneration. See the part where he fights the Stormfiend, starting at 12:30.
yes the pass through melee bug is really bad on some weapons. it occurs occasionally on glaive thankfully, but it renders the executioner’s sword on kruber completely unreliable for now.