I took way too long to reply, I don’t know I just like to drop a thread and see what other people say after a while rather than trying to explain more.
I have played Vermintide and agree that a lot of the interactions are spread thin across the personalities in Darktide - but this is really only a problem when you play with the same personalities over and over - which happened a lot playing with the same careers in Vermintide as well. I have heard the same voiceline with Sienna calling Saltzpyre a hypocrite for hating the rats like a million times, it really isn’t that deep - and in Darktide the psyker calls out the zealot in the same way
My main point was honestly I do not believe the Vermintide personalities are deep or truly much more interesting than the Darktide personalities. You can boil down the characters in Vermintide into basic stereotypes easily - of course the same is true with Darktide, but I don’t act like it’s a Shakespearean work of art.
While I agree there are many good reasons to have set characters like in vermintide, there are also good reasons to have these blank slate archetypes we seem to have in Darktide. The RPG elements are bare bones, but making your own character will always be engaging.
100% agreed. I do not like the hive scum voices. Arbitrators seem not to talk enough. I do feel like they make some voicelines more likely to play with certain patches as well - not sure if that’s true.
In my opinion, Fatshark’s failure to INCLUDE dialogue pertaining to our Characters’ in-game “backstories” is a major flaw when it comes to our Characters’ overall depth. Like, my Arbitrator’s in-game backstory is that he was orphaned as the SOLE SURVIVOR of an attack on his home by DRUKHARI, as in DARK ELDAR. 40K is an INCREDIBLY dark universe, yet Darktide is an INFINITELY more light-hearted setting than Vermintide 1 was for… no real reason.
Our Characters are missing CRITICAL pieces of themselves that, if they were present, would give us moments of dialogue that bring profound clarity to the fact that our Characters actually LIVE in the 40K universe and would be appropriately traumatised from it.
Vermintide 1 had some INSANELY dark dialogues take place between the Ubersreik 5 to a point that even Vermintide 2 failed to really live up to it in that regard. At one point, Saltzpyre would pass a well in Stromdorf and, without anyone else prompting him, bring up how a woman once drowned in it, and no one even noticed that she was gone until the water tasted amiss. It’s unfortunate that Darktide doesn’t really have that same kind of grimdark oomph to its dialogues, despite being set in a grimdark universe.
This I do agree with, there are rarely specific moments referenced for example. Backstories were a complete waste of time and should just be removed from the game since people are only disappointed when they realize it has no impact at all.
As for the light-hearted aspect - part of me agrees while another part thinks the characters are coping with the reality in a way. The rats really were destroying the world - but in 40k everything is already pretty much destroyed and characters act like they’re saving something even though it’s fleeting.
The well example is really good, and I agree not many moments - if any like that at all - happen in Darktide.
I wouldn’t say that people hate the personalities. I, for one, think it’s more of a frustration knowing that FatShark can create very well written characters but instead decided to give us the voices with no established backgrounds.
No matter how many personalities they add, I’ll always gravitate towards the Ubersreik 5 because the simple fact that they have established names and backgrounds makes every interaction feel more meaningful.
Yes, you can argue that the background you choose in Darktide doesn’t really matter and will almost never be mentioned, so why care? But it’s not about the hard facts but about how it feels to hear the interactions.
And in Darktide the interactions feel less meaningful and impactful when you know deep down that there is no Arlo Thomasson in the story of Darktide, just the voice of Male Loose Canon with many names and appearances attached to it, who will always stay the same and will never have any character arc or developement as the story progresses. The personalities have no impact on the story and characters around them. They’re interactions with the cast is mostly artificial and any dialogue regarding the missions or the enironment is often rare and shared across all the personalitites. It doesn’t really feel unique when every character is rigged to react to this one specific thing on the map or piece of dialogue with their assinged line that doesn’t really show us anything interesting about their character because they have none. Everyone treats each other on pretty much the same level (not talking baout how a Zealot treats the other Zealot compared to how a Zealot trats a Psyker). They’re not a family or friends. They’re colleagues that have been out into the same situation and they will forever stay as collegues, no matter how many bonding conversation’s they’ll have. That’s what puts a nail in the coffin for me.
I don’t hate to hear the personalities by any means. They are even very enjoyable and endearing to listen to. But the moment I play Vermintide 2 and hear the amount of lore, backstory and details, put into mission/map/enemy interactions, for each of the Ubersreik 5, I can’t help but feel butthurt, thinking about what could have been.
Maybe if, in the future every personality will have a small character arc or development, it could make every personality feel much more alive, but other than just straight up removing character creator and turning every personality into it’s own established character, I don’t see how else could FatShark make personalitites feel on part with the Ubersreik 5.
Another thing about Darktide that I somewhat despise is that some Personalities aren’t shutting down talk that’s either overly curious or even borderline heretical from other Personalities to any degree of harshness that you’d expect from people who’ve LIVED in a dystopian dictatorship like the Imperium.
I’m not even talking out of “blind loyalty”, but out of FEAR of what happens to them if the Inquisition’s all-seeing eye notices that they’re not shutting down that kind of talk from their Squadmates and decides to PUNISH THEM for it. The Inquisition can condemn you to fates worse than death for mere ASSOCIATION with people who ask too many questions.
The only line that I can think of the response of the Male Professional to some heretical comment of the Psyker. It went something like this: “Back in the Guard, they would have had ya executed for even thinking stuff like this”.
Hell, there’s even a dialogue that underlines how every operative is always being watched:
Female Judge: “Is there no place for mercy under the Lex?”
Male Fatalist: “I believe so. But we are being watched… if you take my meaning.”
Female Judge: “The Beneficent Emperor sees every sparrow fall, it is true.”
It’s even better, because the Male Fatalist basically says that he does turn his camera off but only because he’s forced to, under the threat of death.
Meanwhile, Maul turns his camera off, before anyone can even instruct him to, and throws it far into the void of Clandestia Gloriana, never to be seen again.
But that’s the thing. They’re not really shutting it down, more just rolling their eyes like “Wow, they really just said that with a straight face” and making a quip about it.
The fear of execution is a solid reason for filtering what you say, I grant you, but what about the Zealots who’ve personally witnessed others in very similar situations to their own being dragged whilst begging, kicking and screaming into a Penitent Engine?
There are fates worse than death, and the Inquisition is VERY happy to remind you of that if they catch you stepping out of line. Our Characters consistently fail to RECOGNISE that to an extent that I’d find… fitting.
I guess not this Inquisition. Not only does Rannick allow the Psykers with a mouthful of heretical talk keep living, he hires literal criminals who are probably the last non-heretic people to think about praising the Emperor, given their circumstances and lives they had to life (and to also make them fight alongside people who have dedicated their lives to hunting criminals like them down because why not).
Rannick is a peak Ragebaiter, and he knows it since Atoma Prime is pretty much cut off from receiving any major backup or outside authority to check in on how the war is going.
I know Rannick is particularly lenient, and I actually like him that way. It’d be poor character writing to have him put a Bolt in everyone’s skull at the slightest misstep because it’s expected and has been done to death before.
HOWEVER, this wouldn’t MATTER to most people who’ve been shaped by life in the Imperium. Living in a dystopian dictatorship like the Imperium isolates you from people and makes you EXTREMELY paranoid. Even if you noticed that the Interrogator you’re subordinate to is a bit more lenient than you expected, there’s a significant likelihood that you’re still going to play it safe and not push your luck just in case a higher-up suddenly draws a line. Our Characters CONSTANTLY push their luck and get no real pushback for it from their Squadmates who’d be trying to keep up appearances out of fear. It makes no sense.
Mara Vinci? What are you talking about? There is no Mara Vinci. There never was a Mara Vinci. You sound crazy when you make up imaginary friends like that. Now shut up and don’t ask these kinds of questions anymore.
It’s true for the USSR for example. Where atomization of society happend. But with Imperium there are two factors that keeps its’ society mobilized and united - unending war and faith.
Most didctatorship states don’t like heroic figuers because they compete with a dictator. But Imperium being a theocratic state with people can witness miracles of faith has its’ martyrs for whom people pray to aswell and honour them.
So if the Inquisitor being a conduit of your god’s will tell you it’s all god’s plan you can’t comprehend and so your duty is just to obey, well you probably will, And there is a fear aswell.
But overall there is something off. Sometimes i feel like DT characters was issekaid in DT and wh40k universe rules don’t apply to them. But i guess it’s mostly about not enough religious stuff and serious tones in dialogues.
Maybe if you weren’t sent to suicide mission every few months while constantly living and fighting alongside people like the Loose Canon aka. The ones who have already given up and mostly live their life how they want to.
Think about the fate of the reject personalities. They all probably know they will never be freed and will die forgotten in the darkest of holes in the dingy Hive they are sent into constantly. At some point a realization will hit you that you don’t really have to worry about what you say. The warband finds you useful enough so they’ll allow trash-talk, as long as you do your job and serve the Emperor by caving heretics skulls in.
And in that case, why worry about what you say?
Now, that would be a great argument to justify as to why the rejects say what they say. However, I think what gives people the weird feeling is the fact that the moment we are dropped into the game, all personalities have pretty much arrived at this state of mind already. They have given up on ever living normally again and have already embraced their lives as disposable operatives of Grendyl’s warband.
To tie this up with the topic of the original post, the game could have special dialogues for each reject personality that would fix this issue. They could play exclusively when leveling up and stop playing when reaching level 30 or play through the campaign and stop after the last mission. These dialogues could have each reject personality express their fears, paranoia and, most important of all, hope for freedom, talking about their dreams and what they would do once freed. When the last level or mission is played they should have an ending dialogue where they basically realize and accept that they’ll never escape and are doomed to die in this grimdark war.
That would make every single threat and banter drenched in sarcasm thrown towards the Inquisition and the Imperium as a whole completely understandable given the now, clearly presented context.
Well FatShark could have still given us main characters and also be able to have 4 Psyker on one team. We could have 1 main character for each class with 3 personalities who would only show up in games where a class was selected more than once. That would mean much less resources spent on making dialogues since main characters would be the meat and bones of unique interactions with personalities filling more of a supporting role.
Had FatShark went this route they could have made a smaller Hub area or fill the existing, big one with many prisoner NPCs including said personalities that you could interact with like you can do with Loner in Vermintide 2.
That would have required each personality to do VA work for the original ‘story’ and clearly Fatshark is stretched to their limits having silent cutscene appearances of your character.
Yeah, and many of these silent cutscenes were scrapped after the campaign update anyway, effectively wasting resources. You know, maybe had the devs were allowed to actually pursue their vision and not be forced by the stakeholders, who chase the next big thing, to turn each character into a personality in favor of making a character creator, we could have actual playable characters.
