Did you just compare snap reactions in like a CS environment with putting your crosshair on a PVE target
Yes, while PVP is going to be obviously more competitive, even in Darktide, the skill ceiling in the ranged combat element of the game is much, much, like can’t even really get across how much, higher than the melee.
Headshotting is unironically easier in CS than it is here.
Dude stop you’re out of your depth
Dude, you literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
There comes a point where there is effectively very little difference between different players in their melee combat ability in these Tide games. There is a friggin’ ocean between players in their ranged capability. Rapidly aiming at targets requires both way more skill and natural ability than left clicking a weapon that virtually can’t miss and dodging attacks with nearly half a second windows.
Deluded
I guess i should thank you for the case in point though
You might actually be mentally deficient. Aiming is harder than simple melee combos. This game does not have the tight timing windows for attack combos or dodges that would be required to even begin to compare its melee to ranged.
We’re not talking about a melee-focused game like (older) Monster Hunter with incredibly tight timing windows on dodges and insanely overpowered ranged weapons that barely have to be aimed and mostly nullify the dodging aspect out at a high level.
Careful there chaps, threads get locked around here when people start getting narky with eachother.
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Except the older Monster Hunters also gave ranged weapons pretty significant penalties in survivability to offset it a bit (things like Kelbi Sling was still stupid, but that was more early blastblight being the issue more than the weapon), something that the most recent generation did away with completely.
Not saying your point is wrong, just that the example doesn’t help it that much.
At a high level, defense is irrelevant in Monster Hunter. You can’t get hit on top runs (except intentional damage for low health attack boosts and the like).
There is no debate in the MH community. At a high level, ranged is easier, and objectively better.
Just wow
Bullets in Darktide are the size of a freaking boulder
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg
I’m not going to entertain the other clown anymore though so, whatever
Some ranged weapons are really forgiving and easy to use though. And while there are certain situations, with certain ranged weapons that could divide skilled players from unskilled ones… most of the time I feel like everything is just running in a straight line towards you, or just standing out in the open trying to fire back.
I literally proved in this topic that they aren’t, except on stuff like the revolver, plasma, and (not shown, but we all know) shotguns.
The thing limiting some of the potential range skill ceiling is actually the terrible pseudo-random spread a lot of weapons have. As far as I can tell, it isn’t a learnable pattern, and there is an element of randomness to a lot of the rapid fire weapons that could otherwise be overcome with skill.
I’m not even debating this. I’m arguing that the ranged combat has a higher skill ceiling, which it does. Inarguably. I’m not saying every encounter is harder in ranged than melee. This is obviously not true. I’m just saying there isn’t as much dividing a player’s melee abilities compared to ranged.
This is friggin’ self-evident. There is absolutely no case to be made to the contrary.
So learning melee combos, using the block, dodge, push attack and even the special attack in the correct order when you need them is somehow easier then the use of certain ranged weapons?
If you’d told me that this where for more precision based ranged weaponry that could not fall back on it’s rapid fire rate or insane cleave on shots, then I’d agree that ranged is harder to master, but trying to convice me that ALL ranged combat is by default harder then melee prowess just seems silly.
In Darktide? Yeah. The execution of shooting simply allows for a greater range of skill levels. Unless we’re talking about stuff like the shock staff, assail, maybe things like the Ogryn shotty which require almost no aiming ability at all.
Most guns have a higher skill ceiling than all melee weapons. This doesn’t mean they’re “harder to learn”, it means they have a higher degree of mastery. And again, this is absolutely self-evident in gaming as a whole. Optimizing your shooting ability in a game is a combination of many factors, many of which can be learned and improved upon, some (reaction time is a good example) virtually can’t.
It’s also why shooting is a sport (even when the targets aren’t even moving or moving predictably) but dodging a predictable object swung at you that grants nearly 500ms of timing leniency isn’t and never will be. Virtually anyone can do it.
I think the hump people can’t get over is that firing a lot of guns in Darktide (and most games) is very intuitive, in many cases much more intuitive than some of the optimal melee combat. That doesn’t change the fact that the shooting has a higher skill ceiling.
I agree somewhat with this, having good reaction time and knowing how to aim is good and will help you alot in this game. But having melee fundamentals will help you survive in close combat situations, and it is more then just knowing the most optimal melee rotation to maximize the damage and will also require some foretought to AVOID damage.
Yes it can, within the crusher’s actual striking distance, with a decently long animation lock (which you can interrupt with dodge now but then you won’t one shot). Are we really saying this is comparable to doing it from across a room before the crusher can even launch an attack or reasonably threaten you? Like are we saying fighting 6 crushers with an Evic is comparably difficult to fighting 6 crushers with a theoretical hellbore that one shots each one? I don’t get how this comparison makes any sense.
Yeah and they probably shouldn’t though a fully charged plasma with buffs stacked is kinda acceptable. Revolver hell no lol. Crazy idea but what about if we tune down power creep rather than make everything OP?
Again you have to be in striking distance and the effective dodges does make it pretty dangerous to fight more than one or two at once.
You get like 1 every minute and can hold 2 at max. How is this comparable to a gun doing it every 1-2 seconds?
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I’m not even making the argument that having good shooting ability is more critical in this game. It isn’t.
It’s way easier and way more viable to melee only than ranged only with most of the weapons in this game.
I’m purely talking about skill ceiling. There is more room to grow in shooting ability than melee ability in Darktide. At the highest level of gameplay, it will be ranged ability that divides players more prominently, not melee. At this level of play, we are well past fundamentals.
Revolver can indeed oneshot Crushers, even reliably if you’re willing to wait for Surgical stacks. I don’t know if you’re saying this acceptable or not or saying it isn’t possible.
It’s possible to get a lot more than that. Also possible to kill multiple Crushers with a single grenade.
Until this happens, the Helbore is in a bad spot. If other weapons can oneshot everything and it can’t with it’s higher initial opportunity cost, that’s a tacit admission that it’s not a great weapon. In the game we have now, Helbore is cheeks.
With certain ranged weapons, and certain scenarios where the enemy isn’t walking straight towards you, I’d agree on that.
However, I can understand why some might think otherwise. This comes down too each persons experience with the game. While I do dislike using scenarios to make a point, I’ll use one here. In a given melee engagement with two Crushers and a hound closing it. Both the Crushers are using their overhead strike attack, but they are not insync and thus dodging one will let the other one hit you all the while the hound is fast approaching, if you’d show me a clip of a person using a weapon special to stagger the first Crusher and dodge the second only to turn around and push the dog, I’d say that the player in question displayed a high level of play.
If you’d change that to a veteran using a bolter to maim and knockdown both the Crushers only to turn around and magdump the hound in the face, I would not be as impressed by that display of skill level. So what is the point I’m trying to make here? One of these displays of skill level is something I’d only notice from a clip, for all that fancy footwork of the melee player, it wouldn’t be as noticeable as someone magdumping a bolter into a horde of Crushers.
I’ve barely seen a few players using the more precision based weapons and hitting some good shots on fast moving hounds, going sideways, towards another player. Meanwhile I’ve seen a bunch of players just magdumping into hordes while they later die to a few poxwalkers/groaners, if that was all I was basing my impression on what I though would take more “skill”, I see why people will say melee most of the time.