Crazy they still haven’t copy pasted the beam staff at least.
8 Likes
Ogryn: Autocannon, multilas, lascutter, maybe Heavy Bolter
Vet: Hellgun, (Heavy) Stubber, Melta, Grenade Launcher, Rotary cannon
Arbitrator: (Heavy) Stubber, Chemcannon, Grenade Launcher
Zealot: Melta, Inferno Pistol, Flamepistol(s)
DO IT, FATSHARK!
4 Likes
Whoah there, that could be at least 3 seperate classes.
A tempestus scion, 12$
A navy breacher, 12$
A crusader or something idk. 14$ because of inflation.
Vet and Ogryn can have like a cutlass or something. I don’t think Fatshark should focus on the free to play classes anymore. please dont report me it’s a joke
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agreed also zealot until death is too broken, should be removed and introduced in sisters of battle dlc
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Some good suggestions. I’d add a few things to your list and critique others.
Ogryn:
- I’d add stormwelder and rockgrinder from Necromunda. Plus a fist weapon. The Stormwelder is usually cybernetically attached but we’d just have to look past that. The models could reuse grenadier gauntlet as a chassis.
- Autocannon - sure if they can differentiate it from the two stubber families.
- Multilas - feels a bit delicate/hi-tech for an ogryn.
- Lascutter - sounds good. Industrial tools converted for war are seen in Necromunda and GSC. It’s an untapped source of weapon options.
- Heavy bolter - would look and feel cool but aren’t these things precious in the lore?
Veteran:
- I’d add plasma pistol, longlas and power fist. Plasma pistol is obvious. Longlas has been hinted at although good luck making real sniping fun in such a kinetic game. Power fist because screw the animation problems it would be amazing.
- Hellgun - I find it hard to get excited about these. Based on the descriptions they’re basically just a blessing on any existing pattern of lasgun. If it’s just lasgun but 20% more damage what is the tradeoff? My vet is now my highest true level char and I could always do with more las weapons but it’s got to have a proper niche rather than just “what you’ve already got but better in every way no matter what” like it is presented on the tabletop (where points values take care of balance).
- Heavy stubber - would be cool. Braced autogun but barely mobile when braced or firing.
- Melta gun - Naturally. Dedicated anti carapace beamer. Beamer.
- Grenade launcher - No real obstacle I suppose. Would probably only find a place in melee builds as the rest of the vet kit is high finesse.
- Rotary cannon - probably merges into heavy stubber tbh.
Zealot
- I’d add electro flail, chain glaive and maybe blunderpoles or other Cawdor polearms. Electro flail would mostly be a port from VT2 and fits with arco flagellant themes. Chain glaive is what maulers use already. Cawdor polearm would be a billhook that toggles into a shotgun.
- Melta gun - definitely. This class needs more ranged anti armour and being melee focused makes the overspecialisation of the melta less of an issue.
- Inferno pistol - aren’t these bordering on archaeotech in the current game edition? The wiki says there’s only a handful in each sector of the Imperium. Maybe plasma pistol instead? (GW recently released a missionary with a plasma gun, before that I would never have suggested plasma for my religious crackhead).
- Hand flamer - encouraged by lore but it’s hard to see a niche. Maybe dual wield would make them different enough?
Psyker
- A force polearm of some kind.
- More force staffs.
- Electro flail mentioned above.
Arbites
- Electro flail to expand their list of electrified blunt weapons.
- Chain axe - doesn’t make any more sense than giving them axes and chainswords, and no less sense.
- Sniper shotgun - leaning even further into this than the current exe shotgun mark.
- Maybe plasma pistol - because Necromunda enforcers got these recently.
- Heavy stubber and grenade launcher - absolutely.
- Chem cannon - maybe although I feel like it would be hard to make chem/needle weapons interesting on classes that don’t have the toxin kit that hscum get.
7 Likes
It’s supposed to be better armor penetration (not damage) in exchange for needing a bulky backpack power generator with awkward cables and the like, instead of a simple battery pack that lasts for hundreds of shots. Not sure how well that sort of trade-off works in Darktide.
There’s some Canon-weirdness here. Originally there were “Hot Shot Lasguns” that were used by Stormtroopers that had backpack powered weapons with enhanced penetration (but not damage). Then these got changed to “Hellguns” for 3rd edition Stormtroopers, but operated the same way. At some point “Hot Shot Power Packs” became a thing that gave better penetration capability to normal lasguns for RPG games (at the cost of ammo capacity) and stuff like Gladius 4x games as an upgrade for basic infantry, but Hellguns were still distinct weapons. Now we’re back to “Hot Shot Lasguns” on Scions/Stormtroopers, but the “Power Packs” are still ostensibly a thing but not actually currently available in any tabletop form.
This is one that likewise seems problematic to me, when 50m is considered long range, DMR weapons, much less actual Sniper weapons, feel rather difficult to make work in a fun and meaningful manner.
1 Like
I was talking about the “heaviest” ranged weapons possible for the classes.
These are from the same rulebook where Gunnlugger became a thing and could use heavy stubbers. Heavy Bolters in particular are standard issue for IG HWT, where Autocannons, lascannons and mortars were upgrades for points (unless it was changed or I am missing something). I would personally go further and give Ogryn Heavy Flamer (it’s easier to use than a machine gun) and some sort of a huge industrial saw instead of a chain weapon. Power fists would be cool too.
Could either:
- come with a backpack, without a need for reload, but would overheat, focing you to a crawl with a super lenghy reload (fixing cables/changing barrel, etc)
- come with a big battery mag, would just be a slow and less mobile version of recon with more damage and penetration
Not a beamer please. That would be las cutter and Psyker staffs. Melta should be a short range beam blast
They are issued to Seraphims and inqisition agents, they are rare, but not that rare (cough thunderhammers cough), it’s just a melta pistol. You’re most likely confusing with Volkites.
Quicker than normal flamer + can be used without bracing, downsides are even shorter range and less ammo. Dual wielding would be sick as well.
Toxin DoT seems to be ridicilous without any buffs already (both of them), it could also suppress some enemies that are normally immune to suppression to imitate panic-inducing chemicals
2 Likes
People keep saying things like this but I don’t get it. Having both old power sword as well as relic blade mechanic is objectively better than having just one or the other.
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So long as isn’t the damn cone from space marine I hate that
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Well unfortunately that’s the official version of the melta because it’s also in Rogue Trader (you also get the option for a single shot but it’s not a continus beam, just a beefy lasgun shot visually)
I think the cone-blast came about for the same reasons we haven’t yet seen a Melta in Darktide, mainly that neither game has much, if any, of the types of targets that you’d actually want a Meltagun for. If one were to build a tabletop army to fight the types of things we see in Darktide, it probably wouldn’t actually contain any Meltaguns.
We don’t have enemy battle tanks, hardened bunkers, daemon engines, or actual proper Monsters to fight in Darktide, even in SM2 the biggest things were a Carnifex and Helbrute (scary things to fight on foot as infantry to be sure, but are just about as small as monsters and vehicles get in 40k). Against enemies like traitor guardsmen, underhive cultists, and ogryn, a Meltagun is functionally just a Plasma gun with half the range and half the rate of fire, which doesn’t sound like it’d be a super fun weapon.
That’s why I think the cone-blast thing came about for SM2, a faithful representation just wouldn’t ever have a practical use given the enemy set, so they re-imagined it. I’m not a huge fan of that, but I can understand the approach. For Darktide, I’d rather they use some of those Leman Russ models they already have assets for and come up with some scenarios to use them in 
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It worked fine in Inquisitor:Martyr
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When ~1/2 of the talent tree is straight up copy/pasted from Vet and Zealot, and another 1/4 is just generic stat buff talents with no flair, it’s not shocking that the VFX were also phoned in for a quick cash grab
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I’ve seen someone count up the talents on the tree (minus the stimm tree) and he concluded that 80% of them are either direct copypastes, like the 15%-on-first-enemy-hit talent, or just slightly changed talents from another class, where the mechanic is the same but the buff gets changed. For example, he has the zealot on-dodge buffs, but they give different 15% bonuses instead.
The number 80% really showcased to me that this class is not their best effort yet. Arbites already had a lot of directly and indirectly copied ones, but 80% is wild
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We are not seriously saying that using the “on dodge” trigger counts as lazy copy pasting?
Come onnnnnnnn. There are limited possibilities for what can act as a talent trigger, and an even smaller pool of ones that players won’t hate.
I don’t disagree their talent tree is a bit uninspired but we are stretching beyond breaking point if we’re gonna start counting same trigger different effect as functionally the same thing.
4 Likes
Let me phrase it this way, does it count as a fully original talent instead? I’m just saying, only 20% of them are fully original. Of course the expectation isn’t 100%, but make of that number what you will
I’d just be happy with adding the infantry lasgun optic for rifles. I hate iron sights and I can’t use mods on console
Pareto principle strikes again.
Yeah, I wouldn’t count those unless even the effect is identical. My big issue is how 2/3 Blitz abilities (you know, Darktide’s version of Active Skills) are functionally identical to existing Blitz Actions and it’s not exactly hard to come up with new ones.
Poison Cloud = Vet Smoke + Zealot Firebomb in effect and animation (except it’s green), why not a “Stim Smoke” to buff allies and impair enemy vision?
Flashbang = Zealot Stun grenade with “blinds and disorients” instead of “stuns”, why not something more thematic to Hive Scum? It’s in the “shooty” section of the tree iirc (which is funny given that the bazooka would fit better there lol), so why not something to slow enemies down to keep melee off you like a net or caltrops that can slow/bleed enemies?
It’s just lazy
And I’m just saying the design space for this game is obviously finite. The more talents you create the more inevitable this becomes. It’s also vastly preferable to making talents original as a priority over their function in gameplay.
You MAY make of this instead that Fatshark is just lazy and bad. IF this judgement comes from talents sharing only the same trigger condition, you are unequivocally an idiot.
This, by contrast, is a sensible and defensible criticism of the tree, even though it doesn’t bother me personally in particular.
1 Like