They released a paid class that had a lot of non working skills and a patch ridden with insane bugs. What did they expect?
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said Arbites is bad. What I said is that it is not OP, and that relying on a bugged weapon and CC to feel complete is not healthy class design. I even explicitly said Arbites can run Auric with its full kit.
I compared it to what is already in the game and gave clear examples of kits that perform better. That was not to imply that only broken things are stronger, but simply to illustrate the point.
I could mention Zealot flamer, but there is a good chance you would call that broken as well. I could mention Veteran lasgun builds or grenade spam, but again you might say those are broken. So where exactly do you want the line drawn? I can give many examples if needed.
I gave it a google and still couldnt find anything about a shockmaul bug. Could you elaborate please?
but how is that in itself not “more powerful” than say veteran or zealot?
both take a tremendous amount more skill to even get close walking through engagements the same way an arbi stumbles through with a bad to mid player?
castigator and the talent that doesn’t let you lose more than 50 hp in one hit is an out of jail free card for crusher box-ins, where other classes are a puddle on the floor.
get some shock mines under their butt and you can retreat to safety at a snails pace.
at the same time you put a good to prodigy level player at the arbi and he tops off usual lobbies without a single sweat.
scum tops it off but at the “cost” of really having to work for it.
when he glides through the action its a thing of beauty, one wrong corner or miscalculated box-in and you’re toast.
that’s a major difference in my book right there
where minimal gameplay input playerwise nets undeserved results.
that’s where the experience gets soured cause one portion is playing at their max with heart and soul and actually perform, when the other pushes a talent etc and thinks he’s doing something equal
Look… this part is really hurting me, because it is against all my gamer experience. Really…
relying on a bugged weapon
Seriously… I cannot understand how players can rely on something broken…
I think we don’t talk the same things. I talk about the class played normally without abusing exploits and what is obviously broken in this game, and you, you take into consideration everything that is broken in this game… And maybe i am wrong, but when I read you, I read that you feel that it is normal to abuse of a bug… this is called using an exploit.
Something I refuse to do
If I am wrong, feel free to correct me… but must say, that I think we are not playing the same way.
Ogryn absolutely survives in places where an Arbitrator would be crushed in seconds
You are mixing survivability tools with being more powerful, and those are not the same thing. Arbites having ways to avoid dying does not automatically make it stronger than Veteran or Zealot. It simply means it has more safety built into the kit.
To be clear, I do not disagree with you that Arbites is safer to play. But safety alone does not define overall power.
If a player presses a button and feels like they are contributing more than they actually are, that is a perception issue, not evidence that the class is outperforming the others. Veteran, Ogryn, and Psyker contribute far more in damage when played well. Arbites simply gives players more room for mistakes. And if you can delete ten Crushers before they ever become a problem, then you do not need to survive them in the first place.
I was talking about Havoc in the first place. After you shifted the discussion to Auric, I rephrased my points so we were speaking about the same difficulty. So you need to read those earlier comments from the perspective that I was discussing Havoc. If you play Havoc right now, it is almost entirely dominated by the most broken builds in the game.
I specifically adjusted my wording once you moved the conversation to Auric, and I even asked you to give examples of what you consider broken so we could discuss it clearly. I am not defending exploits. I am explaining the environment the class was being judged in. So again, I am asking you what you consider broken and what not so we can discuss it properly.
you should try castigator+the 50 health damage limit per hit perk and rethink the idea 
ogryn at least has to work for toughness regeneration and keep on the move.
net or dog are a problem, dog is none to arbi.
played both, though ogryn remains my main, but the stuff arbi let me do was enough to shelve him for good cause he felt too “cheap”
I literally walked through fire puddles without a care in the world as long as casti was on, on my merry way to whack some crushers
It was in the notes… think i saw a video of Tanner talking about it
Basically if you did it once in a match your maul would always attack with shock added usually only applied to weapon special
Daaaamn, thats insane
Didnt even know that was a thing
safety allows for far more ways of engagement, so if one wanted to snack all the tasty clusters of elites and specials before the others even come close due to fear of going down, i’d say it’s a pretty distinct difference.
let’s agree to disagree then
Using the build with the dog, the Castigator stance, and the Malocator, I was only able to clear Havoc rank 20. But with a Bully-Club Ogryn (and without a Rumbler, too), I managed to clear Havoc rank 21. As for Lone Wolf, so far I’ve only been able to clear rank 20 as well
Good to know…
What I consider broken? golden toughness that remove any difficulty
Duelling sword not nerfed that is clearly too strong
Things like that are not balanced. Things that I cannot consider as balanced.
I have not shifted to Auric, Havoc have to be ignored for balance. Really, there is no other choice because they made several talents mandatory for all, except exceptional players.
And in Auric, Arbitres are absolutely strong… and really, this is the class where you’re the most secure. Ogryn is close to this.
But I repeat that you cannot take example of broken things to evaluate how a class performs. This is a non sense.
to be fair I never used that method, nor was I aware of it being a thing while I was playing arbi at release.
still, the special used “honestly” + shock mines had some pretty sufficient effect on about everything, bosses included
for what its worth I did havoc 40 on both, not that it should matter in terms of “balancing”
what I’m referring to is “dominating” an auric maelstrom to the point of making 3 other people feel like cheerleaders instead of participants.
and in that regard I had far far less effort in arbites going “ham” than my ogryn, which at least needs to form an engagement to his benefits as to not get disabled while retaining enough enemies to snack back toughness upon.
arbi gets toughness back by walking, go figure
oh… ok
So a big exploit… a way to cheat in darktide.
As I said, you cannot take into consideration am exploit (cheat) to evaluate a class
But even without this cheat, the class is terribly strong.
In Auric Maelstrom, the Arbitrator with the dog, Castigator stance, and Malocator deals more damage than my Bully-Club Ogryn, but not in terms of survivability. The Ogryn can dive into practically any crowd (unless it’s a crowd of melee elites — then you have to be careful). The Lone Wolf, at least the way I play it, is helpless. Flamers punish it mercilessly: you blink, and there’s nowhere left to step, just endless fire in every direction. The dog preempts the flamers, the Ogryn pushes through, and the Lone Wolf… dies
as I said, I never used nor will use an exploit for it makes the whole endeavor obsolete and cheats me of the option of improvement.
at the same time I was topping off almost every scoreboard with an ease that shouldn’t be possible if the class was balanced.
not even in a fun way either, hence I haven’t played him in quite a while.
it feels like watering down my experience when I could push myself further instead
that’s the point, if I were in that position I’d look for video material to get a perspective of alternative ways to play and benefit from its attributes.
1200+ ogryn matches so far give or take, couple dozen, maybe a hundred arbites and right off the bat arbi felt like a vacation and guilty pleasure, even when leveling.
once hopping into auric maelstrom, there was no holding back and galloping for the next “snack” of elites/specialists like there was no tomorrow 
totally agree.
Well, I understand where you are coming from, and I see your point about not using Havoc as a basis for balance. I agree with that, to be honest.
I think we mostly agree, with the main difference being, correct me if I am wrong, that you consider a class strong when it requires fewer inputs to survive, while I consider a class strong when it can outperform others with higher inputs.
If that is the case, then it is probably best to agree to disagree so we do not derail the thread further. That is perfectly fine.