Veteran isn't as bad as people say it is

[flamboyge]

i have thousands of hours behind the wheel. doesnt mean i know the best way to drive or im the best at it. or that im incapable of hitting a pedestrian, or that i dont regularly

[Mayson]

@ToryGraceV2

Blockquote i mean what is this, are you new to the game?

if you actually watched the video instead of clicking through, you would have found out i have 450 hours in darktide.

That’s rookie numbers. A real Fatshark / Tide Veteran should have breached the 4 digits by now.

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@flamboyge

or that im incapable of hitting a pedestrian, or that i dont regularly

…
Should we be concerned? o_o

[flamboyge]

no. just walk fast

[Lt.DavinFelth]

@Reginald

(…) good enough to shoulder the burden of a 4 vet auric hi-shock on a new map.(…)

How dare you… ALL GUARDSMEN PARTY FOR LIFE!!!

[ToryGraceV2]

@Mayson

That’s rookie numbers. A real Fatshark / Tide Veteran should have breached the 4 digits by now

lol, love that meme. +1 to you.

[ToryGraceV2]

@Reginald

But they aren’t bad. That’s my point.

(already replied but wanted to reiterate for the people in the back who might have missed it) WOAH IT’S LIKE THAT’S THE TITLE OF MY THREAD LOL

[Reginald]

@Nish

I just switched to playing Zealot yesterday (had kinda enough of Vet honestly) to try the buffed Crushers (many bonks), and it was a super stark contrast with melee Vet instantly feeling like a power fantasy in compersion.

I mean you picked a dedicated melee class then chose his strongest weapon. Try using kit that a vet would have access too. Zealot is stronger than vet i agree. But mostly in that he has much better toughness generation and stamina regeneration making him more valuable in cqc with much less risk.

@Nish

@Reginald is a very good player, especially with Zealot

Thanks!

@Nish

Him completing an Auric STG mission with a (probably) pre-made team in no way means “Vet doesn’t suck” in comparison to other classes.

More specifically we did this test to prove veteran doesn’t suck. To me veteran truely sucking would be barely scraping by with a win. We did not have quite so much trouble and we did not die a bunch either. One player had more trouble than the rest. However i did say this was mostly handled by my support build. I was very attentive to the team’s well being and made sure we were well stocked with buffs when anything dangerous happened. This was key.

@Goare

this patch, the vet tree and class doesn’t suck. Lots of us would like tweaks or reworks to it - but it does not suck.

This is basically my point. I am not saying vet isn’t weaker than he should be. I am saying he doesn’t suck. Suck to me is being unable to complete auric maelstrom without dying like 4 times. I was downed 1 time i think. Its doable even with two vets running marksman’s focus and executioner’s stance. We all agree vet needs something.

[Fraktal]

This is my biggest beef with veteran. Survivability. (Outside of shout)

[Nish]

@Reginald

I mean you picked a dedicated melee class then chose his strongest weapon.

Didn’t play as much to make such an assessment, but I wouldn’t argue that Bonk is really strong, was doing almost 1mil on the 3rd game with it pulling 2 very bad players through STG.

@Reginald

Zealot is stronger than vet i agree. But mostly in that he has much better toughness generation and stamina regeneration making him more valuable in cqc with much less risk.

Yep, it’s a lot stronger and it’s mainly because of the increase in toughness regain and better stam, but very, very high movement speed is also pretty impactful (also having more health also helps a lot). If you also pick up the “Ignore stun” node it isn’t even a contest.

@Reginald

Try using kit that a vet would have access too.

Any pointers?

@Reginald

However i did say this was mostly handled by my support build. I was very attentive to the team’s well being and made sure we were well stocked with buffs when anything dangerous happened. This was key.

A premade group with dedicated support watching everyone is not a typical experience for me or most of the playerbase, even if only take those into account that play Auric/Maelstrom I’m pretty sure.

@Reginald

More specifically we did this test to prove veteran doesn’t suck. To me veteran truely sucking would be barely scraping by with a win. We did not have quite so much trouble and we did not die a bunch either. One player had more trouble than the rest.

@Reginald

Suck to me is being unable to complete auric maelstrom without dying like 4 times.

I guess it’s just a different definition of “suck” then. I find it a pretty low bar, but we can absolutely agree to disagree here.

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Edit:

Just as I wrote this came to my mind in relation to Vet and Premade, how stupid it is that the most reliable and impactful DR you have Close Order Drill is entirely reliant on your teammate’s willingness to stay with you.

If you play ranged with weak melee and you have one (or god forbid more) aggressive Zealot or Ogryn you immediately drop a lot of survivability, and if you want to play melee engage and your team doesn’t follow up you drop your whole TDR again. In the first case sometimes you can’t even follow them cos you aren’t mobile enough unless running a really high mobility weapon, or what is safe for Zealot, Ogryn is an absolute death sentence for the Vet.

[Reginald]

@Nish

Didn’t play as much to make such an assessment, but I wouldn’t argue that Bonk is really strong, was doing almost 1mil on the 3rd game with it pulling 2 very bad players through STG.

IMO crusher is one of his strongest weapons right now, not in the sense of most damage per se. Though its good. But because you can just beat your way through any threat in melee without any fear due to great stagger AND it has good to great damage. Its the weapon Telopots used to beat my solo melee only challenge for a reason. Its my go-to for that elites maelstrom where there’s 90000 crushers and maulers.

@Nish

Yep, it’s a lot stronger and it’s mainly because of the increase in toughness regain and better stam, but very, very high movement speed is also pretty impactful (also having more health also helps a lot). If you also pick up the “Ignore stun” node it isn’t even a contest.

That’s exactly why I keep talking about toughness with regards to vet, you can mitigate stamina with curios. But toughness is such a disaster for him due to the methods of its regeneration. Its not just for melee either, though that’s usually where I go down with him, its also for just moving around and dodging and things like that. He just feels asthmatic and slow. I made a build guide video on Vet the day patch 15 came out based on one from Patch 14 I released the day before the patch came out (ouch!)

My BEST veteran build | Patch 15 Darktide

The intro sequence is the relevant part. “Veteran gaming” has become a refrain for my whole crew of friends.

@Nish

@Reginald

Try using kit that a vet would have access too.

Any pointers?

Yes - I have been using chainsword with savage sweep and rampage to make up for melee struggles on Vet. I have a friend who swears Rashad is incredible, especially with Weapon Specialist. He has the numbers to prove it too.

@Nish

A premade group with dedicated support watching everyone is not a typical experience for me or most of the playerbase, even if only take those into account that play Auric/Maelstrom I’m pretty sure.

Yes, 100%. That’s why I was careful to explain it. I am aware that we’re the outlier group. My point, though, is we’re actually a useful data point. If we couldn’t even do it without going down and taking some casualties in a carefully made premade that’s definitely a bad sign. Likewise if we did clear it with 4 of the weakest class in the game then we know at least its not literally impossible. And we did clear it though and it wasn’t too bad and the key thing was having at least 1 support build there who was on his toes the whole game was a big boon for the game. Which confirms my analysis that toughness is the key problem with Vet (and we all agree that a few more nodes need to be compressed)

@Nish

Close Order Drill is entirely reliant on your teammate’s willingness to stay with you.

This is why everyone is just running Voice of Command. Its clearly the best thing on Vet right now. Shame that.

[Antilus]

i watched his video about the graia build he made, its evident he is not accostumed to the class, he ran out of ammunition at the second room with his ranged weapon while showcasing the rifle, thats never a good sign, he got lucky and found a stash a little later, but still, thats the second room

shovel is a good pick, but with decimator is strong enough you don’t get any advantage off weapon specialist, to my eyes he struggled takin down shotgunners with his ranged, even with executioner’s stance active

not saying graia is umplayable, but what he picked is far from being a solid build

but thruth be told a solid build always has voice of command, most ranged autoguns just underperform with that, he would have had more luck with Marksman Focus, but then he probably had to sacrifice oneslaught, with the new vet is always a scam

Try the bolter @Reginald, he stood strong despite all the dirt that has been thrown to the vet, make a video of you blasting everything with a bolter, be extra tanky with voice of command, you can play it either with focus fire or with no keystones at all

then if you don’t like you can always go back to the graia

[Ashrad]

@Reginald

Rashad is incredible, especially with Weapon Specialist. He has the numbers to prove it too.

Yeah, I also used Rashad on almost all of my Vet build and I can confirm that’s it’s crazy good.

With weapon specialist’s attack speed boost its dps just goes through the roof.

Well, might not be as good as Crusher Zealot but pretty close I would say, since both can stunlock Crusher.

There’s also Achlys heavy cancel I guess but it probably doesn’t synergize with weapon specialist, also it’ll hurt your finger real fast unless you use macro lol

[Reginald]

@Antilus

Try the bolter @Reginald, he stood strong despite all the dirt that has been thrown to the vet, make a video of you blasting everything with a bolter, be extra tanky with voice of command, you can play it either with focus fire or with no keystones at all

I have been. Plasma too. Specifically on my focus target build. Veteran isn't as bad as people say it is - #27 by Reginald i’ve saved better bolter scoreboards but i do like using it on this build.

@Antilus

its evident he is not accostumed to the class,

True. Though it is my second most played.

@Antilus

he ran out of ammunition at the second room with his ranged weapon while showcasing the rifle, thats never a good sign

I am very comfortable in melee as a zealot main. So i magdump because i’m fine making it back from my aura or pickups. In this case with limited available time to test before making my video in patch 15 i very intentionally was shooting way too much to see how the weapon performed and how i performed when forced into melee. I do this kinda stuff so i can judge edgecases before i recommend a build. For shovel All or Nothing is good, not great, but its fun and pairs well with Deadshot.

@Antilus

to my eyes he struggled takin down shotgunners with his ranged, even with executioner’s stance active

I no click head when shud click head. With head click is no problem.

[dragomusic]

@Ashrad

There’s also Achlys heavy cancel I guess but it probably doesn’t synergize with weapon specialist, also it’ll hurt your finger real fast unless you use macro lol

The recent chang to Achyls means you have heavy, push attack heavy repeated to always get horizontal swipes. I am not a fan of that playstyle but it is effective.

[Antilus]

@Reginald

I no click head when shud click head. With head click is no problem.

how are you supposed to click heads with a graia, i know i can’t, anyways mine was just a passionate advice to a less experienced veteran, second most played?, this means you never touched psyker and ogryn basically, Ogryn is so strong is off the charts, Psyker is second place with voidstrike

you yourself states that zealot is stronger than vet, you see where i’m going with this

i have 2 zealots i and i play them to do melks contracts, (i made 2 of them while hunting for the dreaded T4 thrust on my thammer), i only play thunder hammer and bolter, flamer on occasion, the thunder hammer is so strong even unpowered that i end up not touching my ranged weapon at all unless for melks, (you know, long draw time for bolter, 6 seconds reload, those things)

[dragomusic]

@Antilus

the thunder hammer is so strong even unpowered

Ain’t no way

[Antilus]

@dragomusic

Ain’t no way

I loved the weapon ok? so i went trough the process of crafting a god tier one, with my max hp curios + martyrdom it never let me down, just like the bolter

these are what i got on my main zealot

and this is on my second zealot

these are the talents

these are my curios, on the secondary zealot

gameplay: you just close the gap and start swinging, vermintide ogs knows what i’m talking about

[tfunknationtown]

I love weapons specialist. There is virtually no downside

[ToryGraceV2]

my only gripe, about the change to veteran, is the iron will talent. i wish i could include it in my current build, iron will and close order drill is such a supreme combo.

[ToryGraceV2]

you know whats funny, i just had a friend talking about it, he doesn’t like the mini game that comes with it of actively managing it, and ya know, that’s a valid reason to not like it. but for me…it’s just a quick swap, shoot, trigger melee buff, go ham, and after going ham, switch back, shoot, shoot shoot, switch and all the while agile engagement is giving me a flat +25 % dmg buff