Veteran Grenade, Aura, Keystone Changes

This is just a compilation of suggestions to improve Veteran and help the creative process for future tweaks.

Veteran Unique Class Trait:

Scavenge - Veterans are exceptionally resourceful. Ranged Specialist/Elites drop small ammo packs on weakspot kill. Small ammo packs in crates are upgraded to large ammo packs.

This replaces Survivalist as Survivalist is currently too strong when synergized with weapons like Rumbler.

Auras:

Survivalist - 10% Stamina Regeneration and 0.25s Stamina Regeneration Delay Reduction to all allies in Coherency.

As of right now we don’t have any Auras that meaningfully improve Stamina economy, and Stamina is just so important to Darktide combat overall that it deserves an Aura.

Close and Kill - +10% movement speed for allies in Coherency and +5% movement speed to allies not in Coherency, when moving towards an ally.

Improves the base Aura benefits and makes regrouping with teammates easier during scenarios where teammates may be split up for looting, reviving downed players etc.

Fire Team - +15% Ranged Damage for allies in Coherency.

5% is just too low. Ogryn already has a melee damage Aura. Psyker has a damage Aura against Elites. Ranged focused is perfect for Vet and further reinforces to new players that Vet is the ranged Specialist.

Grenades:

Smoke Grenade - Detonates on impact. Throw a grenade that creates a lingering smoke cloud for 15s. Ranged enemies in line of sight are highlighted for allies in coherency during this duration.

Then another Talent could make Smoke Grenades give players Stealth with an increase in CA cooldown or something different to balance that out.

Krak Grenade - Detonates on impact for high damage against armor and stuns ememies on direct hit, with smaller blast radius. Strong against Monstrosities and Ogryns.

The delay just ruins Kraks to be honest, also the magnetic pull is inconsistent and should be removed for a more linear trajectory.

Frag Grenade - Throw a frag grenade that explodes after a short delay, or explodes on impact when fully cooked. Applies 6 Stacks of Bleed to all Enemies Hit, causing Damage over time. Less effective against armor, great for soft enemies.

Also please tweak Uncanny so that it doesn’t buff Bleed DoTs from Frag. :folded_hands::folded_hands:

The synergy with Uncanny should not exist, it makes Frags far too strong and weakens the role of Kraks.

Veteran Blitzes all converge into a single Talent, similar to Arbitrator Armour on Arbites. This removes Talent point tax considerations and improves build variety.

Keystones:

Keystone: Grenadier -

You take -50% Explosive damage, stagger and knockback from enemies and the environment. In addition, you replenish 1 Grenade every minute and can hold 1 additional Grenade for a maximum of 4 Shredder, 4 Krak, or 4 Smoke Grenades.

Grenades are exceptionally strong on Vet, and it would be better if they were locked behind a Keystone. This would allow their improvement Talents to be more consistent as they cost a Keystone to access, and would free up Talent Tree space for alternative Talents.

Also, Focus Fire being tied to Tag is counterproductive and penalizes players by effectively removing the Keystone’s benefits if they need to tag a dangerous approaching Specialist during an engagement like a Monstrosity fight. Perhaps adjust Focus Fire and make it a standalone Talent elsewhere on the tree.

Demo Team - Your large ammo pickups replenish 2 Grenades. In addition, Grenade boxes now replenish 1 Blitz for all teammates.

Twinned Blast - Two Frag Grenades thrown instead of one, Krak Grenades explode twice and Smoke Grenades have double the duration.

Normally I would say this is too strong, but if it’s locked behind a Keystone that requires sacrificing Weapon Specialist or Marksman’s Focus it shouldn’t be too strong.

Grenade Tinkerer -

  • Krak Grenade - +25% radius, 25% Brittleness applied to all enemies affected by blast.
  • Frag Grenade - +25% Damage and radius.
  • Smoke Grenade - Extinguishes fires, cleanses Corruption of the current Wound and removes tox gas from the area of effect.

Keystone: Weapon Specialist -

Gain Ranged Specialist on Melee Kills (Stacks 10 times). Gain Melee Specialist on Ranged Kill (Stacks 1 times.)

When you attack with your Ranged Weapon, you activate your Ranged Specialist effect to gain +2% Ranged Attack Speed, as well as +33% Ranged Critical Hit Chance per stack. Lasts 8s.

When you attack with your Melee Weapon, you activate your Melee Specialist effect, to gain +15% Melee Attack Speed, and 10% Dodge Speed and Dodge Distance. Lasts 10s.

Always Prepared - Activating Ranged Specialist replenishes 10% of your missing ammo in your Clip from your Reserve, rounded up, for each stack.

Doesn’t do enough currently.

Invigorated - Activating Melee Specialist restores 25% Stamina and grants 25% Stamina Cost Reduction for 5s.

On Your Toes - Activating Melee Specialist and Ranged Specialist replenishes 20% Toughness. 3s Cooldown for each.

Augmented Munitions - Semi Auto Las weapons have infinite cleave through non Elite enemies, Plasma weapons apply 6 stacks of burn on Critical hit in a 5m radius, and Kinetic weapons apply 4 stacks of Bleed on Critical Hit when at or above 5 stacks of Ranged Specialist.

Keystone: Marksman’s Focus

Ranged Weakspot kills grant 3 stack(s) of Focus. Gain 1 stack(s) of Focus every 0.75s when standing still, or walking when crouched.

Up to 10 Max Stacks. Sprinting, sliding and walking removes stacks.

Each stack of Focus grants +7.5% Ranged Finesse Strength. Ranged Weakspot kills consume ammo from reserves instead of your magazine.

Ranged Weakspot kills let you move without losing stacks for 6s. Ranged Weakspot hits lets you move without losing stacks for 3s.

Firefight - -90% Threat against non Elite and Specialist melee enemies while your ranged weapon is equipped, but +90% Threat against ranged enemies of the same type.

This is to all the day 1 Vet mains who remember Camouflage - while being able to completely ignore melee enemies should never exist in Darktide, it’s also true the odd poxwalkers popping up out of nowhere with a sneaky backstab is problematic for a Keystone that revolves around maximizing ranged weapon uptime and precision. That said, melee Elites should still be considered a threat and would not be affected.

By increasing threat priority for ranged enemies of the same type - Scab Shooters, Stalkers, Marksman Vets would effectively draw ranged fire away from teammates, allowing melee aggro to shift away from these ranged focused Vets without a serious detriment to other players. This could greatly benefit classes like Psyker and Zealot.

Tunnel Vision - +5% Toughness Replenishment for each stack of Focus. In addition, weakspot hits restore 5% Stamina and weakspot kills restore 10% Stamina.

Tunnel Vision allows Vets to make full use of Deadshot without serious Stamina penalties. This additional 5% Stam regen on Weakspot hit would allow Vets to make use of Tunnel Vision to offset Deadshot penalties when fighting tougher enemies like Monstrosities or Crushers.

Chink in their Armor - 20% Rending, when at or over 10 stacks of Focus.

Too weak as is, with 10 stacks being the threshold it should be ok to increase it slightly.

Long Range Assassin - Increase Maximum stacks of Focus from 10 to 15. Remove damage falloff for ranged weapons at 10 stacks.

5 Likes

Lol for real, Vet needs love and the game needs major changes. Unfortunately, there’s not another horde shooter game that captures Warhammer 40k the same way Darktide does. Space Marine 2 just doesn’t do it for me.

you say that but you open up with survivalist is broken please nerf argument

but at the same time you propose

which would make it even more broken

so i can’t really tell whats goin on here

then we have a bardin ranger proposal, been there, i don’t prefer that to have the ammo magically appearing on my reserve, if you play vet properly looting is 70% of your gameplay already, its going to be just as annoying as getting those skulls at the last skull event

Survivalist as a team Aura that regens ammo for everyone is broken, so long as weapons like Rumbler exist.

Vet shouldn’t have to worry about ammo scarcity in higher difficulties in the same way other classes do, this would allow Vet to be more resource efficient without that ammo regen applying to Ogryn.

fine but don’t make it annoying for crying out loud, vets got enough of that

I suppose the ammo from Spec/Elite weakspot kills could just go directly to reserves instead, it would probably be better for the game too as it would be less objects being rendered.

Scavenge - Veterans are exceptionally resourceful. Ranged Specialist/Elites drop small ammo packs on weakspot kill. Small ammo packs in crates are upgraded to large ammo packs.
This replaces Survivalist as Survivalist is currently too strong when synergized with weapons like Rumbler.

Guess i’m stating the obvious here but the 5% of OP weapons should be nerfed rather than reworking survivalist.
If I understand this right, the new scavenge talent would be an indirect nerf to every weapon excluding veteran’s.
You are moving down the power level of all weapons but not addressing the power gap between them, so rumbler/etc are still op relative to everything else. Rumbler will indeed be weaker, but every other weapon becomes even more undesirable than it is right now.

Grenades:
Smoke Grenade - Detonates on impact. Throw a grenade that creates a lingering smoke cloud for 15s. Ranged enemies in line of sight are highlighted for allies in coherency during this duration, allies that leave the smoke cloud enter Stealth for 5s, attacking makes them leave Stealth. This effect can only occur once per Smoke Grenade use, once per ally.

That’s alright, but I liked this idea a lot more for default smokes:

“Smoke Grenade - Extinguishes fires, cleanses Corruption of the current Wound and removes tox gas from the area of effect.”

Removing corruption sounds too strong, but removing hazards would be useful and not as niche as the stealth shenanigans.

Keystone: Weapon Specialist -

…
Augmented Munitions - Las weapons recharge 15% of total ammo reserves every 60 seconds. Plasma weapons apply 6 stacks of burn on Critical hit in a 5m radius. Kinetic weapons apply 4 stacks of Bleed on Critical Hit.

I’m a bit lost here. This (implies?) that shock tropper gets removed because otherwise you would have virtually infinite ammo with las weapons.
I don’t see why it needs to change but more importantly I don’t see why it gets pushed behind a keystone, a keystone that on top of that one that incentives melee.

Keystone: Marksman’s Focus

Personally I would delete this keystone but I got nothing of substance to say. It just sucks.

It kinda sounds like i’m against changes to veteran but i’m not, i’d be happy with a bit more ammo at least.

vet is like those people who suffer traumas and only wish to not be touched ever again

I dont like this one much but everything else is great esp the cooking frags thing

Best we can do is nerf plasma and bolter.

Vet needs a good look at it’s damage resistance skills. Currently I see one too potent skill and three to six very underwhelming ones. If their power level gets evened out, there will be a lot more variety in build crafting.

I think your proposed smoke grenade changes are doing too much. Here’s what I’d do:

  • Replace the Smoke Grenade with a Flashbang
    • This flashbang detonates 1.5 seconds after throwing
    • When detonating, heavily suppresses enemies within 15m
      • Forces ranged enemies to flee to cover
    • Causes light stagger on Specialists, interrupting them but not for long
    • No effect on Elites

This makes it like a mini-interrupt with long range that can buy your team some breathing room.

id add one to the stack at least if it only works on ranged/disabler enemies

That just turns it into a crappy version of Zealot’s Stun nades.

Individually, yeah, but you can spam them and it’s anti-ranged, which is one of Vet’s best roles anyways. Zealot stun grenades only get replenished via pickups while Veteran nades are basically infinite, so you need to balance the infinite nades by having them be weaker on their own.

5% will be totally okay if they let it stack. 3 fireteams = +15% bonus for all.

But i like your idea too.

Disagree. What we need is second throw mode to enable\disable the magnet and delay.

Uuugh, no? It’s either “fix all synergies so they work only with their weapons when you hold them” or leave them all be. Killing just one interesting synergy isn’t cool.

Nerfing keystone that already sucks… What? It needs higher attack speed buff or\and keep the crit ranged bonus for the whole duration.

Nah it was okay. Tho i’m not gonna insist in this. It’s just imo. Plus it ceased to wrok once there were too many vets, because if everyone has -90% threat then nobody has -90% threat.

Everything else is a pretty good idea. Though i’ll miss focus target. I’d rather change trash weapon specialist keystone for the grenade one.

UPD: Second thought: A lot of warhammer sergeant\comissars\commanders do carry something like a chainsword anyway, so some melee-stuff can be moved from possibly removed weapon spec to “focus target”

Smoke Grenades as a concept are good, honestly it’s refreshing considering the abundance of stagger options that currently exist.

Perhaps my suggestion for Smokes giving teammates Stealth is a bit too much, but if Smokes highlighted enemy Ranged enemies for teammates in coherency that would make them more competitive and consistent as a utility focused grenade.

Interesting idea, I like that. Primary throw explodes on impact but does less stagger - keeps the damage Krak currently has, then Secondary does the magnet with the stagger it currently has and more damage for Monstrosities.

Yes this.

Yeah, but the Vet using that Talent would be sacrificing Grenadier and Weapon Specialist. It would be locked behind Marksman’s Focus.

“When you wield your Ranged Weapon, you activate your Ranged Specialist effect to gain +2% Ranged Attack Speed, as well as +33% Ranged Critical Hit Chance on your next shot, per stack”

It stacks 10 times, so that’s 330% increased Crit chance for the next shot? Looks like the description is badly worded. Maybe they intended for players to get the full 100% crit chance at 3 stacks, in which case I’m just reading it wrong.

I didn’t intend it to be a nerf, just missed the part about attack speed. Here’s how it should be worded:

"When you attack with your Ranged Weapon, you activate your Ranged Specialist effect to gain +2% Ranged Attack Speed, as well as +33% Ranged Critical Hit Chance for per stack, for 5s.”

The “attack with” part is critical, as one of the current drawbacks of WP is that players often become accustomed to equipping Ranged weapons for higher mobility when using low mobility melee weapons, doing so currently wastes the stacks.

Yes, the OP outliers should be adjusted but my focus in this thread is on Veteran Survivalist Aura which needs to be replaced with something different.

The stealth shenanigans were a bit much, I agree. As for Corruption it would cap at the current wound and this effect would only apply through the Grenadier Keystone.

Too strong I agree, fixed it.

“Augmented Munitions - Semi Auto Las weapons have infinite cleave through non Elite enemies, Plasma weapons apply 6 stacks of burn on Critical hit in a 5m radius, and Kinetic weapons apply 4 stacks of Bleed on Critical Hit when at 10 stacks of stacks of Ranged Specialist”

The purpose of the extra cleave is to give Las guns that extra punch to tap out Specialists buried in hordes. The requirement for 10 stacks should help to make these boosts something that isn’t too readily available.