You can actually stay stealthed if you underhand toss a grenade (secondary fire). I have a grenadier/catachan build useful for rescues, objs and mob clearing that I use in Havoc, and I do it all the time
You don’t use stealth only for rescue, there are a lot of different applications, including those who may not be considered “efficient” by power players, but make sense and bring joy to regular players. And the main purpose of alternative abilities is to provide more ways to play a class, it’s not just about making it more efficient at killing things or surviving high Havoc
When people were thinking about new weapon for vet - this is exacly the thing i came to.
Longlas? Has no niche and place to be used.
Hellgun? Will be like recon las but OP.
Melta? Too powerful + (Heavily underpowered lore-wise)plasma already present. Plus it has no targets to shoot at.
Flamer? Zealot special.
Heavy stubber? Basically braced auto v2? Nah.
Grenade launcher? Huh… Something that Guard uses, plus it’s already implemented into the game(Ogryn)… all you need is new model and change magazine from “1” to “6-8” and bam - here it is. Totally possible. In my opinion - it most likely will be it.
Tho i’d still love to see hellgun.
Yeah, i remember datamine, but i don’t really think that it guaranteed the fact that it will be used. After all, games are full of unused assets and, sometimes, NPC, enemies and mechanics.
I just make my own logical conclusions
Well, hopefully they’ll be interesting. I mean, I can’t say the idea of a Melta doesn’t intrigue me.
Hellgun could work pretty easy with penalties to movement and wield time similar to a stubber. Right now I’m pretty sure you have almost no penalty hipfiring recon las, unlike say the stubber. Its also pretty fast when strafing with sights up. Have to balance out the pain. Also the Recon las has incredible accurate hipfire they could touch up a bit more to drive the in game difference of one being a mobile automatic carbine and the other a heavy machine gun. I just want it, look at this picture
How can you see this and not want squad support fire to be part of veteran in some way.
Hmm, looking up about that I see that the Hellgun can do single shots or automatic fire. This gives me the thought that its base hipfire is actually quite accurate and it shoots a single shot at a time. But the alt-fire is bracing it and going full auto. Also, it could have an overheat mechanic similar to the Plasma Gun, so while it’s very strong in raw DPS when it is in automatic fire, it’s not something you can spam constantly, not to mention a slow swap speed and being slowed to a crawl when bracing.
Just my thoughts on how I’d differentiate it/balance it.
The current design of Smoke nade does suck. Here’s how it could be better:
Smoke Grenade - Throw a grenade that creates a lingering smoke cloud for 15s. Ranged enemies in line of sight are highlighted for all allies in coherency during this duration, allies who pass through the smoke enter Stealth for 5s, attacking makes them leave Stealth. This effect can only occur once per Smoke Grenade use, once per ally.
This makes it a strong utility, allowing teammates to briefly reposition out of bad situations, give allies time to revive players, protect players completing event objectives, or open up flanking possibilities that would otherwise be much harder to achieve if not impossible for classes like Ogryn/Psyker.
Get rid of Focus Fire for:
Keystone: Grenadier - You take -50% Explosive damage, stagger and knockback from enemies and the environment. In addition, you replenish 1 Grenade every minute and can hold 1 additional Grenade for a maximum of 4 Shredder, 4 Krak, or 4 Smoke Grenades.
Demo Team - Your large ammo pickups replenish 2 Grenades. In addition, Grenade boxes now replenish 1 Blitz for all teammates.
Twinned Blast - Two Frag Grenades thrown instead of one, Krak Grenades explode twice and Smoke Grenades have double the duration. Grenade radius is reduced by 20%.
Grenade Tinkerer -
Krak Grenade - Detonates on Impact, all enemies affected by the blast recieve 40% Brittleness for 8s.
Frag Grenade - +25% Damage and radius.
Smoke Grenade - Extinguishes fires, cleanses Corruption of the current Wound and removes/prevents tox gas from the area of effect.
This needs to go along with other RNG skills.
Make Demo Team replenish at least one blitz for the whole team whenever any team member picks up a grenade box. In addition, you replenish one blitz by picking up large ammo pack.
Twinned Blast should be removed completely, this is not PoE or Binding of Isaac. Arbitrator and Ogryn new skill tree barely have any RNG, this should be the staple of all characters except for Psyker, because RNG is kinda his thing.
I quite like these ideas. It would also really play into the Grenadier idea. Which, incidentally, Grenadiers are a type of unit in the setting and guess what ranged weapon they often use? A Hellgun. 
Also, I gotta disagree slightly. While I am generally against RNG, I don’t see a problem for Veteran. To BE a Veteran requires a lot of luck, so it kind of seems like he should have some RNG “luck”.
No, that would be Psyker because luck is basically warp magic. One day you cast lightnings from your eyes and burn enemies by pointing at them, next day your head explodes or you become a spawn. Veteran is an extra skilled and experienced solder, there should be no luck what so ever for him (even though luck is important in the Guard to survive long enough!)
Vet grenades with those Talents - Demo Team, Demo Stockpile, etc are also extremely powerful so it makes sense to place that power behind a Keystone, the price of that power being Weapon Specialist and Marksman’s Focus.
That’s actually a good idea, it’s more consistent, benefits allies and like Field Improv it makes resources more efficient.
What would replace it though?
Could be something completely new or even unrelated to grenades, like a lot of skill nodes for Ogryn were replaced with diffirent skills
It should still be Grenade focused IMO, but perhaps just remove the RNG completely for a Grenade buff as it would now be locked behind a Keystone
I get what you are saying, I just disagree. As you say, luck is important for a Veteran to survive! I am not necessarily saying it should be the ‘nade one, I can just see RNG having some place in his kit.
Well… In theory, since hellgun has a big backpack battery and very hard\impossible to reload in the field… I think it can be a weapon with infinite ammo but with overheat mechanic.
But i still think it will be OP. Even if you nerf it to the state of the game - it’s recon las rate of with with permanently-charged helbore damage and penetration. Too powerful. People can’t handle plasma, ass this - and their butts will explode