We could do it like Vermintide 2 where weaves is a dead ultra-difficult game mode that exists to be cheesed and doesn’t destroy the design balance of the normal difficulties and a modded realm where the design & balance can be freely changed to the modders’ wants. But unfortunately Fatshark’s Darktide decisions makers really hate player agency so I fear we’re not getting a better video game.
Yes this true, i think most players are aware that fatshark will never take any meaningful balance changes and will always maintain radio silence so we just keep posting the same exact sentiments to cope. I think everyone knows at this point that darktide is just some temporary cash cow
until watever fatshark is cooking next.
I read his entire post, someone not too long ago posted something similar when the cds got nerfed and when the ds nerf was rumored. Point is they don’t like how fatshark is nerfing the strong contenders in havoc and that’s valid which is why i suggested maybe a different client for the region would be a solution. 
Yes, I know. In fact, Veteran and Psyker have exactly 98 HP in Havoc 40 without any of the additional health stats from curios or elsewhere. This effectively means that 3 bruisers hitting you will down you, if not outright kill you due to corruption damage stacking on melee hits.
Exe Stance and Stealth’s damage reduction and toughness regen do little to nothing to help you survive most Havoc encounters. Veteran with Exe Stance cannot survive a direct shoot-out with Gunners and Reapers, despite this ability being tied to anti-gunner playstyle, way before Hive Scum released to make it irrelevant. With exe stance in Havoc, you still have to use cover, which makes it a worse anti-gunner ability than VOC that actually lets you stay in the line of fire for longer than 2 seconds mid dodge. So you get a worse survavibility against both melee enemies, because you can’t stagger them easily anymore and survive oneshots, and you also don’t deal with gunners any better.
Stealth Veteran can do objectives, revives and some oneshots on Crushers in Havoc with Power Sword due to additional 30% damage buff, at the cost of having double cooldown of other abilities, because using stealth without +1 node is worthless. You’re gonna run into an enemy pack, supress them for 2 seconds, and instantly die to normal shooters targetting you at the same time with no exit plan.
The point is, you can complete Havoc without VOC. But why would the majority of the players go out of their way to handicap themselves when Havoc was NOT designed around these abilties and their strengths?
That’s a pretty long paragraph to say ‘I need hit trades to play’. That’s why I find these discussions insufferable, there’s long been this mental barrier to getting good at the game installed when you decided to commit yourself to it. Kinda reeks through in previous posts like when you claimed rampage! couldn’t be extended as long as desperado or this new one about psyker/vet needing gold toughness to not get blipped by Rinda in melee. Have you heard of stamina curios? Or is there no room in the meta of not understanding and needing to hit tank. It definitely seems that way with the number of ‘True Survivors’ I see on the floor every room in QP.
When will you guys realize these is just a PVE game and nerf is a bad way for balance. Look at how many weapons and skills are trash, why not buff these instead of nerfing good options. But this is classic Fatshark, they did this in Vermintide 2 many years, stupid and arrogant.
They need to weaken overly powerful weapons while enhancing or reworking some weak ones, but their strengthening of most of the old weapons is not on the right track
Not quite sure what you’re trying to say here?
Ah yes, because in Havoc you only ever fight enemies 1 vs 1, and you should never worry about anything else happening, and also it has never happened in the history of Havoc games that you don’t have anywhere to back down due to map design, or enemies spawning from both sides along with bosses, or getting grabbed by the mutant mid elite pack, or any of the usual BS. You just pick 3 stamina (which I already use in many of my builds), and it magically solves all the problems.
I mean, I have my experience of playing Desperado and Rampage in Havoc 40 lobbies, and experience of playing with other people who use the one or the other. I also don’t remember saying anything like that, I only said “Fatshark most likely buffed it, because it filled the less useful niche on the team”. Otherwise link me the exact post where I said I couldn’t extend Rampage.
Believe me, most players on the forums would be happy to have me on their team in Havoc. But if you can’t challenge my balance talk on how the abilities are balanced and how Havoc is designed for these abilities to be used there, then come up with whatever twisted versions of my posts that you want.
Part of getting good and whatnot is seeing the suboptimal for what it is and not mistaking it for a display of skill.
Otherwise we would be at risk of arguing that pissing against the wind is a form of desirable virtue 
I said you could keep rampage! going a lot longer than desperado, which you said wasn’t the case without playing aggressively. I don’t even understand how that case could be made without skill issue, like you can keep rampage! up for what feels like minutes at a time, while a minute long desperado is not likely.
how to make a giant case in favor of stun and slow immunities, and then go for hit tanking temporarily instead 101. power sword also doesn’t lose power cycler on exe stance, making it hilariously good at taking use of vet’s current melee steroids. but again, that involves experimenting and going outside one’s established comfort zone. it is that mental barrier that makes me automatically discount many posts on this forum.
If you have the same opinion as me = probably good player (like me)
If you have a different opinion than me = most likely trash carried player (not me)
Meanwhile me in Havoc 40 playing some of the most unused melee weapons with leavers on my team (so playing with one less player):
I said you could keep rampage! going a lot longer than desperado, which you said wasn’t the case without playing aggressively.
I’m not gonna reignite that discussion on Desperado, I’ve played many Havoc 40 games to know its stength, and I’ve played Rampage with various weapons. Are we arguing how long the ability works or what? I found that thread and nowhere are we debating anything like that.
Rampage player needs to be insanely good and make zero mistakes for it to come anywhere close to Desperado’s perfomance in Havoc, when you already have other classes dealing with melee threats and surviving better even if they DO MAKE mistakes.
I’ve said my piece in that thread and gave my reasonings, and I’m not sure what I can add on top of that, and if me playing Hive Scum with Bonesaw in that thread’s video screams “bad player that doesn’t understand how to melee”, you should probably have your eyesight checked.
power sword also doesn’t lose power cycler on exe stance, making it hilariously good at taking use of vet’s current melee steroids.
Show us some of that sweet footage of fighting multiple Crushers or Ragers as Power Sword Vet Exe Stance in Havoc 40.
That mythical “hilariously good” build that literary not a single Vet uses in Havoc 40 lobbies, even some of the better players that I’ve met.
but again, that involves experimenting and going outside one’s established comfort zone.
You’ve almost scored the bingo, you just need some more "generic Darktide forum elitist” lines to include in your posts. You have “skill issue”, “vastly overstimating what certain abilities do” and now “other players are afraid to leave their comfort zone”.
it’s not even just elites, you can kill specials too. Smacking the 25th hound twice triggers it lol
People have completed Havoc 40 duos without gold toughness or bubble. Do your research bro its pretty easy to look up on youtube.
Also why would the game be balanced around 2 players? Its a 4 player Co-op game.
so why aint you loving this “challenge” then?
it’s about time the “mandatory” one trick pony traits get reigned in and there’s no check list of what has to be present on a character to be “acceptable” for a team.
team my ass, get rid of the party finder while you’re at it and let me do my 40s with randoms at my leisure instead of dealing with the never ending bitching and moaning “buuuut WE need an xxxx”
there’s no “we” apart from the 30-40 minutes 4 strangers run towards the same exit when it comes to random play, much less any motivation to deal with them outside of what they perform in said match.
you all got way to comfortable in playing premades, night and day difference from random only playstyle.
The same reason you’re not using Ogryn shovel and ripper guns in your recent videos, and instead you prefer pickaxe and rumbler.
There’s nothing wrong with people being upset about weapon nerfs. They use what they like, and you can’t force them to like a weapon they don’t find useful.
Most players in the game, good or bad, only play with the strongest weapons regularly. Especially in random teams, there’s no shame in that. You don’t know how strong your teammates are, and some people have limited time to play the game. They don’t wanna gamble by bringing off-meta stuff.
Some of the best Havoc players I’ve met (much better than me) also use flame staff and duelling sword on the regular.
I personally like playing different weapons, because it’s boring to me using the same weapon over and over again, that’s like rewatching the same show for the hundreth time, thinking there’s nothing else to good shows and movies.
hey, I been shovelin’ lately.
and knifin’
guess time to dust off the ripper as well 
the difference is I don’t mind nerfs as much since as ogryn main its been up and down for ages.
besides I NEVER used the bully 3 spam or BLO when it was op out of principle.
there we differ, for me it’s 40k quake.
got my 1-7 weaponry on an avatar that’s a floating camera through the game.
once I set my loadout and talents I’m good and try to improve from there based on my own shortcomings, not some numbers behind an item.
so with the exception of the power maul, I’ve been using every melee weapon ogryn has available, pickaxe is just the better option to ignore randoms when playing, krourk IV would be a well suited alternative as well.
nerf all of the above, I’ll still rise to the challenge and prove it’s doable with randos/no coms 
instead of asking to buff my character
crux of the matter is when in premade you look for a loadout to compensate for your teammates, when with randoms you take stuff to outperform the competition
expecting randos to play altruistic is like the scorpion/frog fairy tale.
oh wow one video with a boltgun and a private video, you really showed me. fighting multiple ragers and crushers with it is literally the highest point of exe right now, which is more issue to me, but alright its just impossible. but I try to avoid most of the damage, so the hitstun immunity is a lot more valuable to me than not dying to an overhead. literally no progress to be made in this discussion, so alright sure the game is just really super hard unless you hit tank and AoE shout things on cooldown. I’ll leave you with this
Every DT discussion with forum people that disagree with you ends up with you guys from the radical pro-nerf and anti-ranged gameplay side, “Ahh, have you actually tried dodging enemies?”.
Those videos (one of which I forgot to make public) merely showcase that I play like a decent Havoc 40 player who’s well familiar with melee mechanics.
What’s more realistic, my take on the Havoc’s balancing and ability use, or you claiming people should routinely fight final toll ragers, purple bulwarks and blue-stimmed enemies with Exe Stance build where even common horde enemies can catch you off guard by spawning behind you from the door and instantly kill you. Where one burster takes you down without golden toughness, and you can’t always push them away (maybe in make believe world of everyone always playing perfectly at all times). etc etc
Hmmm…
Every time I read stuff like this I have to wonder, where are all those Exe Stance Power Sword Vets in my games when I play frontline shield Ogryn or support Zealot who sacrificed all his DPS potential just so my teammates have an easier time killing stuff? Where are they to top scoreboards in my games and make me feel like I was completely carried by them?
I’m not gonna say I’m a fan of the current mindset of darktide’s balance team. However, there is nothing that I have seen so far that even constitutes this as a straight up nerf to the characters in any meaningful way. Slightly longer cdr timers do not matter when you can just be like “hey scum take the best ability in the game and give the entire team cdr and boosted damage output every 15 seconds”. These changes are all miniscule and they come with their own set of buffs to other stuff that the classes use.
Saying something like “pickpocket will be unplayable in havoc 40” is quite silly. Having access to an infinite source of ammunition from an enemy type that spawns infinitely for a set period of time, to which most of them are trying to approach you in a way that staggers the majority of threats in front of you or come at you at an angle away from enemies, having the most generous proc of “melee kill” being unplayable is, at the very least, an exaggeration.