@dannylew8299 No. It’s up to Fatshark or the responses of this post to suggest more ideas, not only maps.
No, it was not only about the challenges for legend and cataclysm. Some people do play legend and cataclysm for the challenges and then get bored of the game after that. Once they have “earned” their portrait frames which they are proud of. I agree that there should be content for all difficulties and not just veteran and champion. However, Fatshark has focused too much on legend and cataclysm such that veteran and champion has been slightly neglected, therefore, to maintain those potential legend players they need reasons to keep playing. Which is up to Fatshark.
Sorry that my initial post was so long, but I insisted to get all my points across with supporting evidence. It was not my intention to troll. The purpose of my initial post was to suggest that vet/champ players need more content, I was not making suggestions for what kind of content because it’s up to Fatshark to do that. On the other hand, the responses to my initial post may also contain the suggestions from other players. Whether or not they agree with my post.
I simply address the issue I think Fatshark should work on. Not suggestions. If you have any suggestions, please post them by replying to this topic! If this thread gets enough attention and agreement. Then I will post a new topic regarding suggestions for veteran and champion.
Sorry to say that but the whole argumentation is, as it is presented at the moment, just wrong.
Except Cataclysm, what is simply another step in difficulty, you can do everything on Veteran and Champion that you can on Legend+. Neither Weaves or FoW are Legend+ exclusive.
Maybe Cataclysm can be seen as exclusive Legend+ -player content, since it is “sold” as that… what has been criticised/discussed in other topics already. And yes, that’s not fair for Veteran and Champion players, to pay for that too, even if they just wanna get access to Weaves or Beastmen.
No it’s not. You can not say “I wAnT sOmeThInG eLsE”, but don’t say what you want. Atleast give a direction, what kind of content you like to see. I mean, you must have anything in mind if you start a post like that, don’t you?
That would be an unnessesary duplicate of this topic, since the title “Veteran and Champion players need more content” already implies that. You should come up with smth. in your next reply here simply to have a foundation on which you can start an actual discussion . Because, right now, your post is simply a pointless shoutout.
First you will have to actually know why people stop after Recruit / Veteran. And I really don’t think it’s linked to the challenges. I think they are :
- People that will quit because they find the game too boring. In terms in they don’t see any kind of depth in it. And for them, it’s a left clic simulator.
- People that do complete all maps, and for them, it’s the main game done, they don’t care about “extra quest”.
- People that complete the game in a difficulty, and don’t think a new difficulty will bring new content (which is kinda true, as all weapons and all maps are available in all difficulties, all careers too).
Nowhere I’ve seen rather new people quitting because they didn’t have new frames (or easier challenges for veteran difficulties).
I’m not opposed to new frames, I just don’t think it will actually change something.
I did propose a while ago a system of “long quest” with small milestones and big milestones, to progress a player from recruit through legend (or even cataclysm).
Something like a rewarding “big line of stuff to do”. And when you complete it, something rather unique gameplay wise (a weapon with a unique effect, a new weapon unlock, a new career, or something else, access to new maps). Something that a new player would desire to actually try.
I would also remove the veteran limit, so a recruit can actually start directly veteran difficulty (to have a sense that the game can have some depth that is, again, totally invisible in recruit).
I really like that idea. I made a post regarding “content evolution” across difficulties a while back on reddit aswell. Things like that will not change in V2 anymore I guess but maybe it could impact the gameflow for V3
Actually, as we’ll see new content (careers are kinda confirmed, we can guess new weapons too). That would mean, okay, we ask to players to step up “a bit”, but the reward is a freakin’ new career, or new weapon, or something else.
“Legendary” weapons could also be a thing => You can’t roll any properties on them, they do change your ult for a specific career (Like, I don’t know, Ironbreaker’s taunt now sets enemy on fire). Therefore, make your already existing char plays another way.
As for V3, they said there won’t be any V3 for a decade as the “core” of the V2 game is perfect. I kinda agree with that position. V2 is like Payday 2. The core is done well. You can build stuff on this.
Thanks for explaining. You do have veteran weaves, you do have veteran FoW, i can’t think of a content that is locked for cata or legend :/.
There are some Okri challenges and it’s hard to get reds below Legend, but I’m not sure if I can consider that significant content
That is a really good point that I should have elaborated on in my initial post.
I have three points to make:
Try to imagine yourself in the position of veteran players.
first of all consider the number of team members available for veteran weaves or FoW. You can not do ranked weaves without a team because matchmaking is disabled, and the same applies to FoW. Which means you only get so far in both because at the veteran stage, I do not think most players have consistent teammates.
Secondly, consider the cost of WoM compared to the available content. As mentioned before, because of lacking teammates you only get so far in weaves. So because of the difficulty of veteran weaves for example, may only reach up to weave 20 out of the 160 weaves. So buying the entire WoM dlc for only a fraction of the content isn’t worth it. In that sense, veteran players have been neglected but legend and cataclysm players have not.
Thirdly, consider time invested. How many trial runs does a full team need for veteran FoW? compared to legend or cata FoW? despite the skill level, veteran players should still be able to beat FoW veteran at a faster rate than legend FoW. My estimate would be 3 trial runs versus 10+ trial runs when comparing veteran and legend FoW respectively.
Therefore, when someone buys WoM, if they are veteran, they only get a fraction of content worth compared to the legend/cata players. I think this is a hard fix. Especially because I like WoM dlc a lot actually. That’s why I am suggesting veteran and champion players get more content, because legend and cata players already have so much for example WoM.
Thank you so much for elaborating further, you are making some good points here. I’ll try to answer the best i can.
I agree that it’s annoying that matchmaking is disabled for ranked weaves, not sure about FoW, but if thats also the case thats not a good thing, for any difficulty player. There are not alot of groups going for 120 weaves at the moment, because as you said, it’s hard to find teammates who are willing to play with you for a while, it can be tedious to try and be online at the same time, etc. this affects every players group tho, but it’s true that most players that are intrested in weaves are legend or cata players.
WoM dlc was a dlc for players asking for a higher challenge i’m pretty sure, could be totally wrong here. i agree that there should be rewards for players lower then legend, because right now if you want a frame you have to play 1-40 weaves minimum. But its also the beauty of this game, to try and get better and learn new things every day, how the game works, staying together, upgrading gear etc.
If a players finds challenge at veteran, and wants to do FoW veteran, i’m sure he will be stuck for a while. It’s the same as a player who is challenged at legend difficulty doing legend FoW, it changes from person to person. If a player thats is challegend at legend, plays veteran FoW, sure he will finish it much faster. But i think if you finish veteran FoW easily its not the difficulty for you and you should try to do the champion one. i agree with the weave one tho, because no way you are doing 120 weaves if legend is hard for you, so yes.
I understand, but weaves are different untill 40, so the only content we are getting is harder ones. Maybe if you like WoM dlc you could try and move up a difficulty? I understand not everyone has the time to play alot, but start playing a higher difficulty and you will get better, and maybe you might enjoy weave 30-40.
Hope thats answers everything, it’s kinda late so if i missed something let me know.
Edit: it"s hard to put myself in a veteran players shoes, because i have been playing this for a while. so its hard to remember if i was lacking content, also WoM wasnt out yet when i was starting to play.
I am sorry that my post seems like a pointless shout-out to you.
I guess I should have summarized my whole initial point first for readability. If I were to summarize, I would probably say “Veteran and Champion players have the problem of lacking content, please consider this issue and if it is worth resolving, let us consider a fix. Once the issue has been acknowledged”.
Regarding your first point, you can read my reply to Mattie. Where I state three points about imagining yourself in the position of veteran players.
About your second point, as I mentioned before, I am simply stating what I believe is the main issue of V2. Before I say what I think would improve V2 for veteran and champion players. I want to see if this thread even gets enough attention. Maybe I am wrong, but the purpose of this thread is to also find out what other players think about this issue. Not for improvements yet, but whether or not this is something for Fatshark to consider. Right after you quoted me, I also said that “on the other hand, the responses to my initial post may also contain suggestions from other players”. But It’s up to Fatshark to approve of these suggestions and work on it.
About your third point, I am new to the forums. The purpose to this thread, is to acknowledge the problem. If it is acknowledged, I wanted to start a new thread about improvements. Where I would suggest some improvements for veteran and champion players. I would do that only if this thread gets enough attention and the problem I am stating is acknowledged.
Can you tell me how you think I should suggest my improvements if this issue is acknowledged? If not in another thread, where else would I post it? This thread serves the purpose of acknowledging the issue, not to improve it, but other players are free to post improvements of-course.
Yes, and I think that is exactly why so many people quit the game during the veteran stage. Can you remember why you continued playing past the veteran stage? What motivated you to keep playing until legend?
WoM, I just read the description on the steam store again. Maybe you want to read the “about this content” section. I think the only content available for veteran players is the new faction, 5 new weapons, new adventure map, and weaves until weave 20+. So the point I want to make about this, is as I mentioned in my initial post, no offense to Fatshark, but I think they are becoming inefficient. So to me efficiency is basically output/input. When you target a small population (output) and generate a lot of content for them (input) you get a small number, which is how I define inefficient. So I think Fatshark can consider this concept of efficiency by considering veteran and champion players, therefore targeting a larger population, especially because I think most players in V2 are veteran at any given time. I think you are right though, that is the beauty of the game.
That is true, doing FoW does change from person to person and team to team. By a lot, so it is hard to evaluate that properly.
Finally, Weaves are different for every 5 weaves. So let’s say veteran players reach weave 20+, that’s only 4 weaves to experience. It’s a good thing that they rotate the weaves but by then I fear that veteran players would have already quit the game, or have reached the legend stage. I do not have an estimate of what percentage of players quit the game or reach legend stage so I can not evaluate this. However, I think it would be nice to consider this, what percentage of veteran players either quit or reach legend stage, that would make for some very good evaluation as to whether or not Fatshark should give veteran and champion players more content.
you can do quick play weave with all 8 winds at same diff
That’s a really good point actually, I did not consider, and forgot about, the weave quick play, I have not even tried it to be honest. I will test it out today.
also Weave QP provides bot, so you can try it without any players
I think for me personally, It’s the fact that this game has the best core melee combat ( that i played), and has mechanics and alot of depth if you learn more and more about it, i’m still learning new things about how this game works. I like to be able to play on the highest difficulty, so i started to play in legend soon. The things that kept me playing in legend are deeds and twitch and loot aswell. After that WoM beta came out and i took a break, because the stagger changes caught me by suprise, but after getting used to them, i like them alot. When WoM released i was kept busy with new talents, weapons, cataclysm difficulty. But now after doing those alot, the fun has passed and i’m getting bored not gonna lie. Weaves are nice to do and are keeping me busy atm, but have some problems. deeds are rare, except if you farm legend for chests, but i think thats boring. Twitch is fun, after a certain point, lowering the numbers or upping the %'es can make it so there are 8 bosses spawning at the same time, which isnt fun at all. Twitch 2.0 had alot of customization, but i’d like to be able to customize even more, Remove certain boons/add %'es to everything except bosses or something. This game could benefit alot from adding QoL things to deeds/twitch/weeklies/crafting/weaves
As someone here pointed out, which i didnt know. Is that quickplay weaves give you every wind on that difficulty, which is nice. The ranked weaves are the same as quickplay, except they give rewards and scale in difficulty. I would say 1-80 is for players that play legend or cata, and 80+ for cata + players. I also dont think the content is less for those players, because it just increases in difficulty, nobody is missing out on any certain winds or maps.
I think the reason players leave:
- is because they dont like the combat system
- their ‘main’ career got nerfed
- Don’t wanna grind a bit
- No content
For me the 2 biggest ones that i take breaks for, are bugs and content, I think veteran and legend or legend + players have that lack of content feeling, and its not only for a certain group, once you have done twitch alot or you got every red item for your career, players get bored and take breaks, if the content takes to long to come, players leave. (same with bugs ofcourse
To preface this, everything I am about to comment on is my opinion as I am struggling to understand the perspective.
I think we are getting to a stage of understanding your main points @Greyknight654; however, I feel like considering Verteran players as a sperate entity to Legend players is inherently wrong in a game like this. If we were to take WoM as an example, the vast majority of the content is playable at lower levels. Casual players are missing out on the cataclysm difficulty, but only when assuming they don’t go on to eventually play cataclysm. They have access to veteran weaves for quickplay, they get beastmen, they get the map, they get the new weapons and they get the increased level cap.
Another point to consider is that the players who put in 100+ hours tend to get hooked on the combat system and work on increasing their skill. As they increase their skill level, they want to attempt more of a challenge and move up a difficulty. I personally have 500hrs in the game now with 80% of it using the same character and the same build because I like to get really good at one thing and derive satisfaction from a near perfect run despite the challenges encountered. I couldnt care less about weaves, getting all the challenges, and maxing out characters, but I keep coming back because I find the game challenging. I believe most people leave at the veteran stage because they feel differently about the game, lose interest in the combat and have no desire to get really good at the game and someday get to cataclysm.
Saying that there isnt enough content for casual players but there is for legend players doesnt make sense to me. What I would say is that the game isnt a casual game that is designed to keep casual players returning. Either you like the challenge or you don’t.
I don’t personally know how to resolve the issue without changing the core of the game. I know you have been resistant to the idea but it would be very helpful if you could provide ways in which you think this could be addressed in the context of how the game works. E.g MMOs have professions for casual players to level up but adding a fishing mini game to vermintide doesnt really work .
Fort Brachsenbrücke fishing tour would add a new flavour to the map .
For those who don’t know, Brachse is just one German word (there are several other regional names too) for a freshwater bream .