I do 
How much?
is this going to be the bit where I say a number and itâs not going to be correct so you use that to dismiss my previous points? Cuz thatâs always funny when someone does that as if itâs a form of proof.
Last time I checked, something around 47 damage. Not sure if that was a full, full burst, couldâve missed a tick in the beginning or pushed them out at the end but thatâs the highest value Iâve seen. Not 100% sure if that number wasnât against an enemy with DR but oh well.
How far off am I?
Never had more then 36. Even in the most perfect ambush or on downed player
They all was cooked from point blank entire salvo.
How much closer you should go? Into melee range?
And i saw exact 36 into downed player. So i am pretty sure it is maximum possible damage from one salvo.
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Proof? PROOF? What do you mean the sky is blue? Where is the PROOF. No, you canât just get me to tell what color it is, youâd only use that to dismiss my previous points. No, hard numbers, common sense and empirical evidence donât count as a PROOF. Only my infallible opinion.
Fair enough. That 47 I saw mustâve been in combination with other damage then.
I assume youâre making fun of what I said earlier but thatâs happend.
Iâve legit had people with more than double my playtime claim some outrageous BS and play like complete morons.
His balance between risk and reward kinda sucks. He is hardes Skaven to do something, and reward is kinda crap.
When i am playing heroes i see them as a joke.
Assasin is kinda crap too, but atleast if you good enough heroes have no chance to avoid pounce from orbit. And he can end the game like no one can. And he can interrupt revives like champ
Ratling is pretty damn insane. Even against team with 4 shields you still get tons of value.
The most OP hero for me is BOP BH. No aim penalty is just absurdly strong.
My first games I thought ratling was perhaps the only overtuned skaven, specifically because of aim bloom + stagger/slow effect. They can more or less disable a single player from very far away, and that player cannot fire back at them due to aim bloom or get behind cover due to stagger and slowed movement. It might be reasonable to reduce the intensity of either the aim bloom or the stagger so that players being fired at have some sort of response.
But overall I find the skaven well balanced. They seem OP when used by competent players in potent combos. Like whenever the pactsworn get 4x disablers at once and actually strike at the same time, thatâs obviously game over xD And ratling crossfire is extremely strong, just like in PvE. Multispawns, coordinated specials are really just a menace, and thatâs core to this game experience
Iâve been playing a lot the last couple days and trying to reevaluate it but no, itâs still strong, infact I think itâs probably even stronger than I first thought. Firing at longer ranges is still decent with good aim and effective targeting. But the real power is just close-mid range hosing down an entire team while theyâre mildly distracted. The mistake I think most players make that make them vulnerble is exposing their body to anyone they havenât hit within the last 2 seconds. Keeping that in mind boosts your survivability considerably. Even at close ranges the accuracy debuff is so bad that heroes can miss nearly point blank. The knockback, accuracy debuff, and visual effect of everything combines to kind of be a disable itself and you can sweep an entire team with it. Itâs what the fire rat should be except it has good range.
Even what youâd expect would be direct counters arenât reliable. Handguns and bows require a headshot to 1 hit, and that can be countered by targeting them first. BH ult requires that it actually hits which can be hard at range especially when the visual effect is so intense it kind of obscures the gunner, and even more so if BH is the target, plus the gunner will be strafing. kerillians ult only does like 75% health damage so that doesnât work. Burning head might be the only reliable quick counter that canât be easily mitigated by the gunner.
As for the flamer, yeah I think we can agree that theyâre pretty trash. The range is bad, theyâre large, loud and easy to spot and kill, and considering their average lifespan, the damage isnât even that good. They canât even interrupt revives or do enough damage that you canât revive through it even at relatively low health. Meanwhile gunners interrupt revives at any range.
Right now gunner is auto pick for me, Iâve seen people legit lose their minds and basically suicide trying to kill me. Second is gutter runner. You get guaranteed damage from long range pounces which can be decent itself and the ability to pounce again after downing some one can lead to some nasty chain downs.
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Ratling is BY FAR the best special. He is the reason why everyone uses shields and handguns. He is a reason why only Pyro is good from all Siennas.
When you are playing ratling - all burning heads and WS ults will go to you.
If they have only 1 sniper you can just shoot him to pieces and no one can stop you from that.
He is the only one who can Kill downed hero in reasonable time
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I hesitate to call him the best, he is the most generally useful but is he always the best option possible? I am not so certain. Sometimes hooks, assassins and gas are much more useful for disrupting a team, especially in especially tricky areas like Helmgart barracks or such.
Though admittedly there is no special that i think punishes a team quite so hard for lacking something as the ratling, not enough sniping is as you noted, a recipe for endless misery.
But against a team that has that, the usefulness of the ratling instead starts to waver and i find that gas for vision disruption and assassins for knockdowns with gas do yield more when occurring.
Against good team pretty much every single special outside ratling goes straight into trash tier. And they can do anything only with combo. But ratling with combo is even better.
You can throw globe into pack/assassin and deal 30 damage.
Or you can unleash salvo as ratling and deal 100 damage. Any range, almost no travel time. Very ez to follow up disablers and pukes.
Outside combos Gas is the most useless guy in party. Two globes im team means that enemies can just speedrun the map with no problems.
But globe in puke is pretty good, but again as Ratling you can just kill a guy in puke.
Gas can blind, can mess up aim. He still has some use.
I met 3 ratlings in enemy team few times and every single time it was nightmare to deal with.
Packmaster is honestly the one i find the best against a semi-skilled team when terrain abuse is done right. So damn many spots where it can jump down and drag someone down a cliff or off a road to mess with things.
Gunner? Gunner against a skilled team just gets taken out by rifles and abilities so quickly. Lots of people save stuff to deal with them.
Gas âŚis as you said, often not really having any direct impact, but there are places where disrupted vision and area denial is a massive help to the skaven hence my high regard.
And get shot\stunned in that same second. But yea, against semi good teams Ratlings and Packs are totaly the best.
But when you face good FK, Torpedo OE, Javelin HM and WP you can just forget about picking Pack.
I think that globe and warp should be buffed. Right now they are almost useless against any half decent team.
Even these guys often have a reaction time of a second or two, and many people still have not learned all the really abusable spots. Its still exceedingly common to see people dragged from the 2nd floor of the helmgart barracks down to the first for instance. Over and over at that.
Ofc there will be teams that do know&react but not all of them still.
warp can indeed use something to help it, it really so awkward and bad on average, but gasâŚgas has too many good combos and utilities so i cant say i am certain it´d be good.
Make it notably better and it´d probably be faaaaar too strong,especially with premades.
Imho Gas is too useless in solo Q without combos. You can run through it and take like 5 damage
That highly depends, a tank like FK can really just walk through a deployed gas and barely notice but a squishy pick like the elf actually takes like 15-20 damage if walking through a fully activated cloud.
Ah that reminds me, many people are really bad at using gas right, they throw directly at people which adds like 1.5 seconds of the target being able to walk out before damage gets going. Throwing it at someone who is stuck or infront of them to block typically does more.
âŚThough that often ends up working more as area denial since people will wait or walk around instead then.
Mostly teams just run through it or avoid it.
I saw gas cloud, run through it as HM and took 5 damage.
A slow effect like the troll vomit would do wonders for gas.
The problem with just straight up buffing the gas is that it already works great in some situations, it can rack up hundreds of damage⌠if the heroes get bogged down and get into a revive loop in a tight space, the gas rat becomes THE best skaven of all. If it got buffed with either increased damage, or a slow down effect, it would be insanely broken in these same situations. Furthermore, such buffs would make it incredibly annoying, as the gas rat could just block the way and force the hero team to wait for the dissipation of gas in chokepoints every 15 seconds.
I think to properly rebalance the gas rat, the cooldown on its globes needs to be lengthened, but the time it takes for the gas to start dealing heavy damage needs to be shorter. It should be set in such a way that getting clipped by the cloud should still not do significant damage, but running through the entire cloud should shave off 20-ish HP. This would of course mean more damage deal by the gas over all, resulting in globes that are less spammy but more impactful, and canât be just ran through.
Depending on how, and if fartshart plans to deal with the revive meta, the gas cloud could also have an additional effect that would slow down revives by a significant amount.
Furthermore, the gas rat needs the suicide ability it has in PvE. There are some situations where being a Globadier is entirely useless, and it needs a quick and easy option to allow a respawn. Or just fart under the nose of a pesky hero who intends to bully it in melee.