Agreed here. I don’t necessarily dislike all the changes but mashed together… its not the vermintide I’ve sunk 500 hours into and that kinda sucks and its not the vermintide 2.0 they promised cause its buggy as hell so… worst of both worlds until they fix the release and hopefully what was intended becomes realized.
Unless this was the intention in which case I don’t like it, its clunky and inconsistent.
This. This is one of the biggest problems I think most people had before (based on my pub experience) and it simply became more of a problem now. People waste WAY too much time in each map by either playing too passively, falling far back away from density instead of pushing aggressively through it in places where they could afford to do so (while being aware of boss triggers ofc) and by spending way too much time looting and exploring for every single chest even in situations where everyone is already stocked up on pots and bombs etc. I see this all the time.
What is the most important thing that you need to get right in order to clear Cata? My answer would be, without a doubt, pacing. You have to keep going and playing defensively will only get you overwhelmed and killed. While less crucial in Legend and below, it is still an issue and every extra horde that you have to fight because of slow pacing is yet another chance to wipe.
Legend doesn’t take much longer to clear than it did before as long as people play aggressively - which is the solution. Many people seem to think that the solution to combat 2.0 is playing defensively with “boring” crowd control weapons and whatnot but that is the reason they feel like enemies are spongy and that Legend takes too long. It is much easier and safer to keep falling back and making enemies climb etc. in order to deal with density but this playstyle will get you killed eventually, it will take ages to clear maps and I’d agree that it’s probably boring.
On the other hand, playing very aggressively without taking too many hits requires much more finesse and for a lot of people a new learning curve comes with that which is probably where a lot of the frustration is coming from.
Just give it time.
Pacing!
This is absolutely 100% accurate. Poor pacing in Cata is severly punishing. Everyone needs to be on the same page, moving as a group clearing forward and tightening up when the threats come online.
Dilly dallying and giving ground, or not tightening up makes things get really ugly really fast.
The problem is that Vermintide forces you to break your formation in some situations (like boss + horde in a tight place).
And anyway make this in qp is very hard… I could agree that Cataclysm forces you to play in premade (even if imho nothing should force premade), but Legend totally nope. Honestly we need to farm. Otherwise there will be zero progression and we will get boring soon.
You’re playing as a HERO. A character that’s already leagues above most of the enemies your face, and you’re having difficulties killing a … rat or a leper?? You SHOULD be hewing through most normal enemies like they were tissue paper. Their sole purpose is to be a distraction for enemies that are actually dangerous, like bosses, disablers and armored units. Your ability to withstand through overwhelming odds gave THP a credible reason to exist in the capacity that it did. ESPECIALLY for certain classes like Slayer, Zealot.
The balancing of this patch is abysmal. It ruins the pacing of the action and turns the game into a grindy, crawl, instead of a fast paced challenge that it was designed to be from the start. Team challenges can still exist without turning the game into a grindy bullet sponge-filled mess.
Unfortunately, I believe you are totally right
Before 2.0 and this SILLY stagger-to-damage model, the difficulty level of the game was balanced imho…
But SINCE 2.0, and with respect to the pre 2.0 game, the reality is this…
Legend isnt legend, its Legend+
Champion isnt Champion, its Legend
Veteran isnt Veteran, its Champion
Recruit is still silly easy, but thats the point
Cataclysm!? I am not a masochist, and I never see a game in the list at that difficulty
Before all of you jump down my throat here about just playing on a lower difficulty, I have over 3600 hours in this game and am very familiar with the old difficulties and was very comfortable in even a legend pub with decent players. I expected a NEW difficulty I could practice for, not a totally new game mechanic (the idiotic stagger mechanic) that changes the core game. Perhaps its stagger resistance? Enemy mass? (and therefore cleave) Raised attack animation speeds? Enemy reach increases? I dont know what exactly was done with 2.0, but it sure wasnt a GOOD thing
This is the truth coming from a hardcore V2 player. Just saying… I have less fun playing now
EDIT: I havent bought the expansion, and I see no reason to support this kind of development in a game I used to enjoy SO much more
2ND EDIT: Look, I can complain about balance all day. The fact that it does not suit me is irrelevant really. I can complain about how overly EASY the event in Fort Brachsenbruche was, OR complain about how rediculously HARD it has become in comparison. I am not complaining about balance, that is a slow process, and many positive developments have happened to that end. What I AM complaining about here is simple…
Fatshark.
Listen.
To.
Your.
Customers.
We.
Are.
Right.
About.
This.
I’ve stated this elsewhere, but when someone starts calling the game boring it is an immediate red flag indicating that they are just frustrated from losing. I see this all the time, and I’ve done it myself plenty of times. Cataclysm is “boring” only to the most prideful among us.
You don’t have to agree, but keep it civil and respect the forum guidelines.
http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/guidelines
I saw this and just had to point out that the opposite seems to be true. At least for official realm players. The guys who were doing Legend with hypertwitch and deeds. As for modded realm players. Some of them that I’ve spoken to seem to like the changes. But it’s not hard enough for them and they will still be playing in modded realm anyway. So, I dunno.
I’m personally in the boat of not enjoying the changes. Some have already been fixed, like the ULT talents on lvl 35. But the entire stagger system still needs to be reworked or completely removed in my opinion. I think stagger could still work on heavy weapons and shields. Get rid of the stagger talents and just have it as a bonus for those weapons. Revert the HP changes back to normal so hordes are not so thicc. But, then again. Maybe I’ll be suprised and they’ll get stagger to a spot where I actually enjoy it.
As for the left click spam that people are saying pre 2.0 was. At least for me… that seems to be exactly what I’m doing now. Trying to weave heavy S&D strikes in with my light attacks/block pushes only gets me hit. It’s easier to just spam light which staggers and CC’s. It’s not fun for me. Perhaps I just invested too much time in the game before and I can’t get used to it now. I had 100 hours in the beta last month and now put significant time into this one and I’m still not really enjoying it.
Really? I dont care who you directed that at, and I understand that sometimes you THINK those things… but think about it… that kinda communication is NOT gonna help ANYONE. If your purpose here is to communicate how you feel about a game you love, then speak your mind, and hope the developers at least READ it. Though I have no idea if they are listening, thats what I do
I read (yes, the whole thing - and well done btw) your HUGE post! I think I understand it, and its purpose, and it contained nothing like what you just typed. You know there is no need for disrespect like that. If you receive it, just ignore it. They are probably young kids and they are angry
Also, sometimes people have a completely different view. I have read SO many things on this forum regarding the ‘best’ way to accomplish certain things that I totally disagree with… and if I was to respond to them all Id spend more time on here than actually playing the GAME! Anything anti-teamwork is against my opinions… but they are just that… opinions
I get you are angry, and I feel the same about almost ALL of your HUGE post btw…
But, I aint gonna talk to ANYONE like that… at least on here… even if they deserve it
^
Just an opinion
I might’ve cared about the game pre 2.0
Fatshark has a proven track record of not caring about their community, and at this point, I don’t really care to be civil.
It’s pretty funny how you’re okay, decapitating scores of rat-men, and mutant men, and beast men in some of the most violent manners imaginable, but you can’t brush off mean comment on the internet, even if that comment has many good merits.
Are you really gonna pretend that last comment you made has any merit whatsoever? I mean I don’t care for insults and if it was up to me, that post would be fine but don’t act like it had any merit.
And I like the combat changes. It now feels meaty and like you actually have to fight instead of the easy mode cruise control that it was before. I mean if you like pre 2.0, you may wanna try Gone Home! Now that’s how you insult people without getting flagged, smoothbrain
No, obviously that last one was just spiteful.
Ok, I guess you arent interested in listening to something reasonable. I can respect that, as I am pretty much the same when I am angry. But I will say one thing…
But you already know this is true…
That comment? No good merits there no matter what way you cut the cookie
EDIT: I just read your response. Good. You see spite lol - so do we 
They kinda did. Thing is their customers aren’t a hivemind and some love changes, some hate it, some like it, some don’t, some can do without.
I personally can do without the changes and I don’t think new difficulty is as easy to explain as everything moving up a tier. Currently everything seems to be in convoluted scene where I couldn’t recommend getting the game to anyone interested.
There are better ways to balance the game rather than turning everything into a meat-shield. I’ve outlined it in my review of the beta already if you actually care to read it: WoM Beta and current live version problems and theory craft - #21 by Adeon
If you manage to ignore my “crassness” you’ll see I offer a very in depth analysis on how to fix things without making things more grindy. I believe that part of the review is one of the last comments I make, not 100% sure.
The only reason I told that Smoker off was because he spent the entirety of my review thread virtue signaling and being a giant hypocrite. I have no respect for either him, or his butt buddy Yzneftamz.
^ If that is true (obviously excluding the hivemind reference to diversity), then my experiences have been unique
Every friend I have in my list, including many (overwhelmingly many as far as I can tell) on these forums indicate to me that that is simply untrue. Not listening to their customers is the very problem I am pointing out. Obviously I am not an elected representative and can only speak for myself, but you think that FS is LISTENING and applying the wisdom their customers are conveying? If you do, then you have had a different experience than I have. Not unheard of, but I seem to be the odd one out in that case
I have heard over and over that FS received a loud negative response towards some of the mechanics changes to the game and chose to ignore it and deploy the game in that state anyway
^ and THAT
Is what I am trying to talk about
We all have different opinions of course, and SOME (god, show yourselves so that I may SMITE THE! ← joke lol) may even think the stagger-to-damage model is a GOOD thing… but thats NOT the majority in my experience, and to say something to the contrary CAN be an opinion, but it may not be fact
Ah, so it’s you. Virtue signaling? Telling you not to break the forum rules/guidlines for the forum I moderate?
Regardless of how you feel, step back, take 5 minutes and please give the guidlines another quick read. If you can’t abide by the rules, then please don’t contribute. I swear this is the same issue you had in that thread as well.
The thread is rather off topic now regardless and has run its course. Thanks for the feedback everyone.