Those bonuses apply to the gk as well though so in my opinion it’s a fair comparison if you want to look at their damage output.
We are but I think you don’t quite grasp the concept of breakpoints. The damage bonus from the power boost effectively makes no difference if it still takes you X hits to kill an enemy. 10% isn’t nearly enough to change that to X-1 unless your build happens to be missing that exact amount of power or less. As an example, I recall that it takes UC +47% power to 1shot headshot legend marauders with a light tap from the conflag or fireball, so you need EP and 4 properties (2xChaos and 2xInfantry). So unless you happen to be running EP+3 properties, a gk power boost won’t make an effective difference in that regard since you still need 2 taps. afaik on Cata even having +47% Power and the gk boost is still not enough to reach that breakpoint anymore.
The stagger breakpoint values are generally even less forgiving. It’s not like you’ll suddenly be staggering chaos warriors out of overheads just because your power got boosted by a gk. Usually it takes a very significant power commitment to achieve that. I’m not even sure if cleave is affected by that boost, but once again, even assuming a flat 10% boost it still means nothing if it isn’t enough to actually permit you to cleave through an extra enemy.
At the end of the day, if Verm2 gets more quality content, I think that is always a good thing. Of course it can’t be released for free, but as long as the game doesn’t suddenly become unplayable without owning that extra content, I really don’t see why it would be an issue.
Having just checked, i am almost certain that 70% hit off the gatekeepers health in a single shot was a bug, he certainly did not do anywhere near so much damage against any other boss he encountered during his stream. Even when critting or having a str pot active and ulting.
That 70%-ish hit? More than 2000 damage which is not anything that should be doable, not since early vt2 blunderbuss days anyway.
Indeed, but there are weapons and abilities that are significantly affected by the 10%, like bladedancer, piercing arrow and elf spear among others, so how can you state that 10% does nothing? O_O
…Well i suppose “only” 10%, or 65 hero power if you prefer, by itself rarely does a ton by itself but it can be combined with others for maximum value. And even when some are not affected even with extra help there still are a fair lot that are.
As for the stagger, yes cleave is affected by hero power(seen by merc talent “more the merrier” letting him cleave more than limb splitter when active), and yes indeed 10% might not let you stagger a CW out of a overhead but it might let you cleave more basic enemies and still have more damage and stagger which yields a fair lot of value. A great deal of value even depending on weapon.
I cant say i know for certain but i seem to recall that the last two stacks of the unchained passive results in a noticeably higher ability to stagger. So with GK power bless UC can afford to keep lower heat without losing anything.
I’m not asking for Engineer to be the best at everything, I’m pointing out that he is outclassed at his own job and brings nigh nothing to the table, new or old. Except for being a bomb donkey.
If you go for a hybrid kill role flamer/GPS the engineer takes more babysitting to make work than usual. Effectively downing the team from another player. OE can’t hold his own in melee after flamer gets hot and can’t snipe specials with ease using GPS.
If you play as an anti armor build, WS does the damage better, still has an ult, passively regenerates her team, and doesn’t require babysitting. Huntsman will likewise out DPS, has a better team support aura, has extremely valuable stealth, and doesn’t require babysitting.
If you play OE as anti horde you are less safe than WS and IB, who both do the job better.
If you play OE as anti monster you are less safe than BW and BH, who will both do the job better.
If you play hybrid anti monster plus anti horde, BW will outdamage while still being safer and providing stagger to the team.
OE is jack of some trades and master of none. He can’t do everything at once, and when he tries he is subpar at it. Because his mini gun is exceptionally weak by comparison to any real gun. If it’s going to take an ultimate and replace it, it should at the very least, be comparable to other ranged ultimates. But it can’t stack up! BH instantly blasts CWs and monsters. WS instantly blasts hordes and partial patrols. And the cool downs are similar to fully charge up! And that’s out of combat, both WS and BH can smack stuff to get ult charged up. Whereas OE has to drop out of combat every 10 seconds to crank! Just buffing the mini gun to be on par with other ranged weapons and ultimates is necessary. I’m not asking for OE to be the best at all of those things at once. I am asking for him to be the best at the one thing he specs into, because he doesn’t have a real ult otherwise.
Here’s where I’m going to be crass with my wording,you’re delusional if you think an RNG buff that you arent even guaranteed to get each time is going to make that much of an impact on your run.Sure you can repeatedly reroll the same map to get that one oh so OP blessing but at that point,why even bother not playing the game for the sake of one quest?Who even builds their setup around an RNG quest in a pub scenario?Even in premades(you’re going to say that it’s just regular game but no,200-300% Twitch no blessing),nobody ran GK specifically for his power boost as it doesn’t matter,if at all.
“GK outdps a Huntsman”
“Huntsman is chunking a boss’ hp,must be bugged”
Someone doesnt know about the mechanic known as ult cdr per hit or on taking hits.
GK is easier boss damage but much lower while Huntsman has a relatively higher damage potential provided he can land headshots.Only time a GK would kill a boss faster is if you’re playing on Legend and below.Cata?Good luck doing more damage than a competent Huntsman.
A quick summation is that the OP thinks the game feels incomplete without the paid dlcs.
Well the game isn’t completely able to sustain itself on cosmetics because the playerbase isn’t as large as major MOBAs.
There are some other game series like Europa Universalis or Civilization where it feels like the game is incomplete without the dlc, I didn’t have that feeling while playing Vermintide 2(having come late to the game and picked up the dlc after playing for a while). You need to play hundreds of hours of Legend before you’re done grinding reds, which is plenty of the game time. My impression was rather that Winds of Magic wasn’t worth the money. The dlc classes are better but don’t feel critical.
Lul. There’s nothing magical about those abilities, they work the same way. Just with blade-dancer as an example, if I recall you need 2 properties to bleed marauders to death on Legend, so about +20% power. Having and extra 10% more at that point practically makes no difference since it doesn’t do armor damage anyway and it most likely doesn’t scale up to the point that you can delete maulers, as they have almost twice the health (correct me if I’m wrong). I don’t use it anymore since PoPing into hordes generally yields a far greater damage output, but with the way hit points increase in Cataclysm, I’d be surprised if you can delete marauders even with +30% power. And again, all the while you can just take PoP anyway and dish out a ton more DPS, so I really don’t understand your point. The same goes for Wildfire for instance. iirc with EP+4 properties out (so assuming you ult with your staff equipped and you are fully committed with Chaos & Infantry), the full fire aura falls just short of killing Cata marauders. So maybe with a gk buff you could kill them provided they take the whole burn effect. Game-breaking?
That’s a very good point. In my opinion it’s really not the case here. I would have been a bit reserved with this statement maybe 6 months ago or so, before the latest big balance update, because at the time a lot of the vanilla weapons were just kind of underperforming on the high end of the game while some of the DLC stuff completely outclassed them. It’s really not the case anymore outside of some very specific scenarios (Huntsman still feels way better with the spear than anything else, for example).
I feel like this oversimplifies the game somewhat. I mean how many different damage modifiers can potentially be on an attack in different circumstances? There’s the 2 stagger levels, headshot vs bodyshot, crits, 1st vs 2nd enemy hit by swing, range damage drop-off on ranged weapons etc. Between all those different variables to me it seems improbable that 10% power wouldn’t mean killing things in less hits in quite a number of circumstances.
Of course you can say that’s not that valuable since it’s not reliable or predictable which is a completely fair point but I mean, clear speed is still clear speed right? It still seems decently impactful though to be clear I do not think GK is overturned generally, not significantly so at very least. Just nitpicking that specific point really. I think you’re underplaying the impact of that passive while others in this thread are probably overvaluing it TBH.
What I’m trying to say that it is a small performance boost that will be completely irrelevant if the group is not already doing well. It doesn’t trivialize content, it doesn’t turn runs around if people are struggling and it certainly doesn’t transform potatoes into heroes of the End Times.
I think we’ve somehow got very muddy water about the terms involved.
VT2 is definitely pay to play in the MMO sense of the word. You need to pay to play the base game. It isn’t Free to play with nickle and dime transactions to make the money…
But it might be getting close. Currently we’re paying a low amount for the base game which is fantastic, but there is an increasing amount of stuff that is getting charged for.
The idea that monetized content is going to pay for free content appears to have gone out of the window as I really cant see Chaos wastes being free. Haven’t seen any new paid hats for months and I thought paid-for cosmetics were going to fund future dev.
In short, there doesn’t seem to be a very well targeted income stream from the cosmetics (As there’s no new £3 hats) and no new free content (Reworked Karak Azgaraz for example) and only an expansion over the horizon… which almost fits with the model they had for vT1 that FS claimed didn’t make enough money - An expansion that includes maps and weapons. If Chaos Wastes includes any new faction (demons?) then might it be priced the same as WoM which seemed a bit steep for what you got?
The new classes however, are targeted and priced quite well even though I don’t really play either of them.
I thought MMOs used to be subscription based? The monthly fee covered server costs and ongoing development of new content? In any case Verm itself is a software product that people work on. Those people need to make a living as well so content needs to be priced accordingly. I think the base price is beyond reasonable given that you easily get hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment if you happen to like it. The same goes for extra content, which is generally at a bargain price per individual item. You don’t have to own everything unless you want to and you aren’t really losing out on critical elements either way.
Something being RNG doesnt really mean it isnt overpowered when it actually does come into play.
Some quick checking seems to indicate that second critical arrow did more than 2000 damage, you telling me that´s…normal? Even when the same person could not replicate it against other bosses encountered during his streams.
As for his other boss clears? GK vs huntsman? GK with conc pot, as i mentioned in a earlier comment i think, beats anything but BH as far as i know as far as cata is concerned.
Sorry i tend to make a point of avoiding damage as much as i can so i hardly ever get any use from that system, as for ult cdr per hit it doesnt work equally well for all weapons or even all attacks as far as i can tell.
So with that in mind, 90 seconds cooldown is still a high cooldown, in a really pitched fight you might get to use it twice if you had it from the start but generally you will absolutely not get to do so. Not unless you are the only melee powerhouse on the team anyway.
GK with a conc pot has a far easier time wrecking bosses than huntsman, and he´s faster. I can only see huntsman winning out in DPS in scenarios where bosses are spawning very frequently, there are no conc pots, or bosses are much more durable than standard cata ones.
’
Its actually 3 properties or bonus power…they survive 20%power vs with 0.25 health left. But on cata the idea is to just stack damage into it as it´s a rather safe way to increase it and it lets you wipe out gor waves in a single pass. Unforunately though Cata marauders will not die in a single pass alone no matter what, but, more damage vs chaos is still plenty good for more than just bleed damage.
As for power from pain builds, its a bit like the swiftbow vs hagbane discussion really. With hagbane being bladedancer since it will always have a unbeatable damage output against unarmored enemies if their groups are dense.
Infinite cleave and all that.
The only time PfP is better is against armored targets or when enemies are scattered and cant be stacked, its not even all that much better against bosses since it needs multiple targets to shine.
“Edit”
ahh well i´ll stop here having just finally realize i´ve been diluting the thread way too much, my final word is that i still think huntsman being able to deal 2000+damage in a single critical ability headshot on the gatekeeper looks like a bug though.
Yeah I’ll clear up what I meant. Guild Wars 2, black desert online are pay to play MMO, as you have to buy it to play it but only have the one off initial purchase. Archeage isn’t. Vt2 therefore matches the pay to play model used by guild Wars 2 for example, but none of the games listed above is like the subscription model for WoW and Elder scrolls online uses/used.
I completely agree with the base game being massive value for money, definitely for me with my stupid amount of hours in the game.
I don’t think any of the classes are pay to win, although some of the DLC weapons have felt a bit like that in the past. Axe and falcon being the main culprit. Theres another topic about the speed of patching and weapon balancing being slow to the point of painful but let’s not go there.
@Adelion If it is I chose the wrong term. I’m thinking of games where a good chunk of options are locked unless you are paying to play them. It comes to mind an eberron mmo which i tried for a couple of days. It was free to play in the sense that the base game was tecnically free, but you had to pay if you wanted some races, you had to pay for part of the content, you also had to pay for qol stuff if i remember correctly.
What I meant is that it’s beginning to look quite different from the VT1 model, which was a few cosmetics and map dlcs (which morover didn’t truly lock content).
As a few players observed it might be a side effect of a lack of vision regarding monetization plans, and the lack of communication from FS isn’t helping.
I know that if I bought VT2 today, with no knowledge of the franchise, I’d be really put off by the amount of paywalls: pay to unlock all careers (and if you want the challenges the price of each career is the same of what used to be major DLCs for the game), pay to play the highest difficulty, pay for the new game mode advertised in part of the keep (which i wouldn’t even know i’d be unable to play with friends or queue at all, and that’s 20$), pay for map DLCs (which in itself would be ok to me), then I open the emporium and I’m met with a full page of DLC hats (which I don’t need to buy, but you see my point, I hope, and I’d have to scroll through that any time).
This all happened in a year and a half of development - not counting DLC maps which were always a thing - so you can see where I’m going with this.
What’s the next paywall? I guess we’ll see with CW.
PS the friend I play VT with the most, is of the opinion CW will be a free expansion to balance out how overpriced the late DLCs were, but I don’t share his optimism.
