So now heavy weapons have no real use in legend and below. Since everything gets more stagger damage they’re even less relevant than in the past. Can champion stay 1.7 and legend be 2.25 or something? Somewhere in the mdidle at least.
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Oh boi, that’s exactly why I like FS so much, yesterday foes where barely staggerable, but today they become gum balls, you strike SV with a light attack and it bounces few meters away… [sarkasm off]
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That’s a great point.
I really really think it would be worth testing having it only able to be applied by shielded weapons + hammers and the like, and then adjusting the values from there. Could do it in an experimental build.
As is it’s too blanket a mechanic and weapons in VT2 don’t handle being treated with blanket tweaks that well, look at the discrepancies that already existed with THP generation between weapons and careers/the talents available to them.
I also think making an exception in the THP and Stagger tiers by not limiting the choices there to 3 would help a lot - if every career could pick whichever of those talents they wanted, it wouldn’t shoehorn any of them toward taking specific weapons (as some of them are now). Things like the Crit/HS centric ones could be an extra available choice only to careers where they’re logical (e.g. WHC, Huntsman, Shade, Pyro) and the talents that increase the team’s damage against CCed enemies could be an extra option on all the tanking/offtanking and utility careers (FK, IB, HM, Unchained, merc, WHC etc)
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If you had a actually bothered to read what I said you would understood I’m not trying to “derail” anything.
Don’t assume what I’ve already stated.
Here’s what I’m referring to if you need a quick refresher,
What I mean is that I still hold on to that small glimmer of hope that Fatshark might revert these horrible changes. That’s why I’m still here pushing for change.
It’s like I described earlier, I’m watching them crash and there’s nothing I can do about it. Except that I want to do something about it. I want them to understand why what they did was wrong. And if I fail on my journey so be it. At least I tried.
Hence why I said, it’s the idiot in me talking since for some apparent reason I’m still here when I really shouldn’t be. Because the logical side of me knows. Fatshark ain’t going to do anything regarding stagger or how the game feels. But the emotional side of me wants this game to be good. I want it to feel good. Which it doesn’t in it’s current form. Which it didn’t for nearly the entire beta. Which it probably never will in the future.
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That is actually one of the suggestions I remember I gave to Fatshark during the beta. Apply stagger system to heavy weapons like the 2H mace and shield combos as to make them more viable with a clear cut use. And make it only usable vs heavy targets like stormvermins/chaos warriors etc. Make the elites more ELITE. But keep the hordes a fleshwall.
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Just played a few rounds in this patch. The stagger value might be a little overtuned now. I had a hard time following up some shield bashes with attacks since the enemies got sent flying away…
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@flisker brought it up too, along with @BizarreSalp. @TmanDW also had a couple of ideas on the topic of balancing things
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Just did 4 Legend runs, it’s a joke. I will hit the hookrat with light crit attack with dual swords or just heavy attack with other weapons and it goes literally flying away/get smashed… insta rekt…
Exactly as expected from 2.75 down to 1.7, insane change. This is not how proper balancing is done… Mobs get bullied by anything now. Tried 4 elf weapons and all are absolutely smashing everything in Legend, it’s like I’m playing Recruit.
But why is this even happening ? Well… everyone probably knows by now right ?
I don’t know what to say anymore. Just please… get veteran players to test this stuff first. Fast iterations … only release final versions, properly tested.
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Curious, what weapon are you using? It’s feels just right with S&D and Dual Daggers. I’m finally having a good time playing elf again without a glaive xD Perhaps it’s too much on heavy 2handed weapons due to their already high stagger?
The THP on cleave seems a lot better. At least on fast weapons… need to test more with slower cleave weapons.
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THIS. IS. THE. REIKLAND!
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yea it’s ok, I could one-shot hookrats & charging goats with it on Legend with L30, that doesn’t sound ridiculous at all 
Yeah, it’s pretty much back to how it was prior to 2.0, which is to say something you can breeze through. I started a game to try it out after the patch, then remembered I had something in the oven. Blitzed through the map with no issues in 17 minutes with 3 moron bots, didn’t burn my bread.
The fact that the stagger value wasn’t changed to something middle-ground between Champ and Cata is pretty odd. 
So easy to stagger stuff that you’re functionally STRONGER than the old game, just with slightly tighter dodge timing and less THP generation.
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I’m pretty sure that means the explosion just happens without stopping your momentum.
The run I did was with Axe & Shield.
Well, I was sorta having fun with the increased difficulty, but I guess this is good, too… 
I’ll be off to Cataclysm in no time!
I really think the Stagger Values could’ve stayed the same and I hope the game doesn’t stay this easy. I’d be heartbroken if this was the end-state of Legend difficulty, but I guess that just means Cataclysm will be the go-to (despite it being the difficulty you should only go to with a tight-knit crew). My hope would be Champ -> 2.0 and Legend -> 2.5 at minimum.
@BizarreSalp keeping Legend at a middle-ground sounds reasonable but would cause the same amount of backlash; people would still complain that they couldn’t do Legend anymore because the difficulty suddenly spiked.
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That would be great, though even 1.85/1.9 and 2.35/2.4 might be ok for champ/legend if they want to keep a wider berth there. The way it is now makes the step up from legend to cataclysm gigantic and makes legend pretty easy.
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Since stagger resistance isn’t touched in cata, can DD, SnD get buffed to make them good on cata?
Thanks for doing an update so quickly; I was worried we’d have to wait till after the 13th see any changes. I expect some of the anger to die down if people feel that they are being heard. Small tweaks like this are always more acceptable then sweeping changes.
A lurker here: I’m not a fan of this direction and hope the stagger resistance will be adjusted up a bit more. This isn’t quite the place for a full discussion though, maybe I’ll make a larger separate post…
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