Nobody is going to ‘suffer’ because their blatantly overpowered weapons got brought down to a reasonable power level. Unless you’re implying any regular player not running meta is actually a masochist?
This is some dramatic rhetoric.
No? I’d like for the game to actually have some reasonable balance like not having weapons that have niche utility and then having other weapons that do it all and do the utility aspect better. Why run a single target anti armor weapon when you can run a weapon that can cleave and be anti armor and is highly mobile?
Saying for people to ask for ‘self nerf’ options is a ridiculous answer.
Speak for yourself. Most modern PvP games are such horrendously lopsided matches feeding EOMM combined with catering to the lowest common denominator that it’s just not that engaging anymore. (The Finals, you were doing so well for a while and then made me sad)
I have way more fun needing to clutch in something like Vermintide/Darktide over needing to do so in a PvP match. There’s just so much BS to wade through to have fun in PvP games nowadays.
depends.
scale back the clock, say 24 years, pay all my bills and you got as close the definition of quake 3 as it gets.
i was practising certain jumps across the maps for 3-4 hours daily on end.
yes, there´s a certain “feeling” to it when you enter a lan party and peoples faces drop knowing it´d be at best second place for them, not gonna lie.
you get addicted to that feel as you get humbled meeting eventually those higher up the food chain.
thing is, back in the day you stayed humble for the next fist was about 5 meters away meeting any “real trash” talk.
and even the learning experience getting chased across q3dm6 by “big names” was thrilling in itself, though the learning effect was a bit dulled due to the 200bpm heart rate and more energy drink than blood in my system.
“there comes a time thief when the jewels seize to sparkle, the gold loses its luster and the throneroom becomes a prison. and all that remains…”
is a my desire to keep my skills free from rust without the anger, shouting, daily k/d checks etc.
darktide has a similar platform when it comes to movement, reflexes aim etc.
i can port my arena fps skills right over and keep them oiled without the external pressure while still feeling accomplished carrying and clutching entire auric maelstroms.
so in that regard darktide is the pvp past 40 i guess
Introduce a difficulty with friendly fire… And everything will be really difficult.
But as you said, havoc is coming. So I guess there will be no change on the regular difficulty.
I would not agree about this. However, as always, i will repeat that the plasma gun should really cleave only on charged hits. (But light shot should still cleave a little)
Rending is too strong. Talents and blessing
However this is about balance
I think the change that made them engage in melee has made them less dangerous.
Tbh, dreg ragers are a big threat. Scab are not.
Hordes need to be like they were by the past.
In my memories, the hordes had a lot more groaners and poxwalkers
Also I would like several armored newly affected in them.
Gutter runner also can land on you from above, but dog is always on the ground level easier to spot.
Well that’s why devs should test things first and also play their game themselves. Either way with overbuffs they will be entrapped in the endless loop of buffing.
Overbuffed 2 guns, now overbuff the rest of 28, either way people will cry. And then buff enemies again. All that instead of nerfing those 2 guns in the first place.
But realistically they just can explain better why they’re nerfing something and provide some metrics.
Like you can’t fix cooldown reduction farm without nerfing it. It scales poorely, more enemies makes the game easier at this point.
What is the dogs waves point? To make vet spam shout?
I don’t think regular and charged shots should have the same purpose.
Regular shots - some cleave (with increased RoF if needed), like 1 for bigger than human sized (ogryns, mutes), 2 for human sized elites and specials, 4 for trash mobs.
And charged - projectile that detonates on impact, doing some significant AOE, can add some burning DOT blessings/bigger AOE, etc. (I dunno it’s kinda what I expect from overheated unstable plasmic clot)
So you can build your plasma either in high cleave railgun alike, or go for a horde clearing AOE type.
Kinda make plasma to work more similar to voidstrike staff, but not 1 to 1 copypaste.
Both the current “Auric’s Damnation” and “Maelstrom” have decreased in difficulty and can be cleared almost consistently.
I think it would be better to include a process that would increase the difficulty of Auric’s damnation to differentiate between the basic damnation and Auric’s damnation.
I have been playing recently and I think that elites and specialists are not seen as a threat, but only as a named enemy.
Even if I did nothing but watch from behind, most of my teammates would have taken them down with no difficulty.
I think the boss enemies should have a delay after the spawn sound, as they appear too quickly and are likely to be dead before the horde arrives.
I agree with the OP and the above general line of discussion. Thinking about Crushers vs. VT2 Chaos Warriors, I believe the final two points might be the most important … or maybe just the least-troublesome to address.
I like the idea more challenging elites, especially if that could include fewer of them. (Fewer would require, it seems, a big change in player anti-armor power.)
Individual tougher/more powerful horde units seems good too - I enjoyed that Moebian mob.
I’d like to see a more threatening monstrosity added to the game. (I like the idea of a Rager Chaos Spawn.)
To nerf yourself. See, there’s already self nerf options. Not so ridiculous. Especially in PVE, where there needs to be a consideration between difficulty and engagement otherwise you’ll end up catering to too small population driving majority away.
They don’t censor bullcrap here, you can use that. And I didn’t say “modern”, nor only matchmaking games exist. Planetside 2 is still running, that’s as anti EOMM as it gets and you can’t clutch it solo for most part.
What are you doing here then, this is PVP too. : ) (f-ing don’t auto correct my smilies, forum)
I miss the buff to scab shooters that existed for all of 3 days.
In the moment I was annoyed because it was unannounced, but it made vet feel like it had an identity again and the sheer amount and danger of enemy lasfire made it so me focusing on gunning down those guys didn’t result in me being abandoned and smacked by groaners since the zealots and Ogryns actually kept our flanks and back clear so I could do my job.
Nice dodge of answering my question. Again: You act like it’s masochistic to run off meta. Is any player who runs off meta actually masochistic, even regular ones who don’t necessarily know what is meta?
Will bringing down the couple of outliers somehow magically make them not masochistic?
Do you think auric damnation is only possible with hard meta choices or something? The more I think about it, the more holes show up in this bad attempt at an argument from you.
No. This is not a reasonable expectation. Actively nerfing yourself because there’s a few major outliers fixes nothing. It also solves nothing when it comes to having people join your matches that then just faceroll their keyboard and hold M1 to win while you’re relegated to “stand back and make sure they don’t make a big enough screw up while they get to enjoy their power fantasy as you do nothing.”
I don’t enjoy Planetside.
Since apparently we need to be high ranked to be allowed to comment on things, the irony is that I was high ranked in Finals too.
Since they changed the talents, the enemy balance is a mess. Some enemies are already HP sponges, and you want to give them more HP? Not to mention the game spawns enemies out of nowhere behind you or in corners when you’re not looking. What’s the point of having spawns if they’re going to do that? Plus, you have the map design, which is just corridors with little cover, and when a few ranged units show up, it already becomes a problem, especially if there’s a horde. But that only happens because many weapons have become almost obsolete since most specialists are walking HP sponges. I think they should greatly improve the game’s director, especially those unreasonable spawns, or at least update all the weapons so that most of them are viable.
I honestly don’t understand how anyone could suggest the vast majority of weapons aren’t more than viable at this point. There have been so many buffs it’s genuinely hard for me to think of any weapon that I’d be loathe to use. There are a handful at best.
Spawns not sticking to doors and designated spawn points is dumb I’m sure everyone agrees.
I’m also extremely confused at the HP sponge comment. I have a build where I can one shot every elite and special weaker than a mutant/mauler with a damn laspistol. Time to kill is most definitely not drawn out at the moment. Very much the opposite. Enemies are made of tissue paper in comparison to the damage we can put out.
What’s the door dealie?
Re: designated spawn points, what was the reasoning here? Were people clamoring for this? Is it just a dumbing down related to impending PS5ers?
Probably the pinata door effect, where you can just go ham on a door and kill things. That would be good to fix, as much as I enjoy it lol.
I don’t really understand how designated spawn points are inherently problematic… enemies gotta come from somewhere right? Some of them definitely have issues where they are too accessible/predictable, but a lot of times I find it’s a nice reward for map knowledge to get a bead on where dudes might be coming at you from. And there’s only so many ways they can enter a room…
Oh that, duh.
Do people not like mob pinatas? It’s a staple! I kid…
I think my tired ass-brain misunderstood @alsozara 's refs and should have just gone to sleep. Edit: re-reading this as I drink my coffee, I think he meant spawning out of thin air.
I thought he meant designated horde spawn points".
Yeah, they’d have to add even more doors I suppose, but that has its own problems, and the ticking doors cause havoc.
Someone recently mentioned in-passing the idea of lurking specials, like a sniper or trapper hanging in the rafters.
Spawn points have always been an issue in *Tide, seems worse than others at times with tweaks being made, seems much worse in DT due to density OFC.
I’ve mentioned this before, but part of allowing for more specialized roles and creating more varied engagement situations, is managing the spawns.
Example why this matters:
If there are more fire fight engagement opportunities (a good idea!) and potentially buff shooters (like they were before), then anti-shooter roles like lasgun / headhunter vet could have a good role on the team.
However, it’s hard to spend more than 5-seconds ADS’ing because if you do, there’s is a good (like 90+%) chance that you’ll get stabbed in the back by some groaner that spawned literally out of thin air. It’s super frustrating. And the way to avoid that frustration is just to not even bother trying to go anti-shooter and run around like everone else with their melee weapon out.
The whole “random stray enemies appearing behind you” needs to go away. If the desire is to apply pressure from multiple angles, then the director should just spawn a small pack of enemies at a legit spawn point (door or drop down or whatever) a reasonable distance back and give an audio cue that they are there (door sound opening, etc…). Otherwise, you’ll be shooting along until you hear the “whoosh” and you just have to cross your fingers you can switch to melee and block in time. But it gets really frustrating.
So - make the game harder by ramping up the tactical challenge of encounters, letting player roles specialize a bit more, and tune down the B.S. Disablers (trappers at least) are also in the B.S. category and I like many of the suggestions here to rework them. VT2 Pack Masters were cooler.
And this is why vet and marksmen approaches are so bad in this game.
An area should stay clear once you punch through it. Not have groaners appear literally five feet behind you because the spawn engine broke down or the game decides it needs to do that to fill a quota.
The flip side of all this, and we saw this more pre #13, is that a lot of vets expected the melee classes to be their bodyguards 24/7 (even though Vet was OPAF w/ many weaps). Granted you should be helping and covering your teammates in a co-op game, but 24/7 babysitting gets old fast. Like during prolonged ranged fights, I’m sure many of us cover our rangers as much as we can, but I don’t want that to be my sole function as a melee, nor expect that as a ranger.
I don’t think the concept of strict roles really works in DT as it did in VT for various reasons we’ve all discussed previously, I like to take somewhat versatile loadouts because of it but I’ll also make an effort to cover any gaps in the team comp (where lobby switch classes?) barring being a full-time nanny. Sometimes covering the gaps simply means adjusting my own playstyle depending on the situation, which is something I can control.
if VT taught me anything it’s that you should always be regularly checking your six in *Tide games as well as not being a one trick turret, and people refusing (or being mechanically unable) to do so can lead to unneeded frustration. I don’t personally mind the random strays, but yeah spawning out of thin air is cheezy and often overdone. It’s hilarious when you’re escaping Smelter and have a bunch of scabs spawn in between you and the exit elevator as you’re staring at them.
If I can play devil’s advocate for a minute, currently at least there’s enough of a difficulty, or lack thereof, buffer that a lot of the game’s broken mechanics, bugs and cheeze are largely negated. If there’s a major re-balance then these issues become a lot more dangerous.
I think a lot of the issues might be attributed to the hyper mob density and the attempted workarounds for them. I think many of us would like a less dense but more dangerous set of encounters, I’m not sure if that’s in the cards, ever in DT. Some more refined, smarter less cheezy spawns would go a long way to smooth out some rough edges for sure.
