As many of us saw, with the Thunder Hammer buff it comes a little nerf that might need to be looked at more closely, the nerf on unyielding damage.
And to be honest i mostly aprove this nerf, but some things have to be talked.
Bulwarks: At the moment they already need a few buffs/perks/blessings to reach the one-shot breakpoint, specially with “Ironhelm Mk IV Thunder Hammer”, so nerfing unyielding could make this task a little to tedious. A solution for this could be completly differentiate “elite ogryns” with real bosses unyielding damage stat or make monstrosities/Boss a new damage stat table.
Quick death of Bosses: This is not only a problem of Thunder Hammers, bosses can be deleted with or without it, and don’t even need a specialization from the members of the team for it to happen, but i let a few examples on how other classes can decrease the boss killing timing too:
Ogryn Point-Blank Barrage + Heavy Stubber/Rumbler: It’s not sane how this combo can delete entire hordes, bosses and rows of elites/special with that minimum effort.
Vet + Krak: with this combo and the correct build it doesn’t take more than a pair of seconds to delete bosses.
Recon Lasgun/Columnus Mk V Infantry Autogun: I do say that at least MKV needs a little bit of skill to pull those consistant weakspots, but without a doubt this weapon and the correct build can delete bosses in any class (recon soon on zealot).
Various weapons and other builds:
Locke Mk IIb Spearhead Boltgun: Yes you can delete bosses with the bolter, but to be honest it takes a little to much of investment on a weapon that for sure should delete bosses.
Knife: objectively the most OP weapon in the game and for sure it doesn’t do any bad against bosses.
Shroudfield: Please fix the double attack per ult.
Boss Health: As right now i don’t think just increasing the bosses hp is the solution, if anyone reading this have use the TH in a match where there is an ogryn using PBB+Stubber, you know that if the boss is not at your melee range and the ogryn start shooting at it, it’s over for you to get in melee with it (the same can happen with other classes/builds), and i do say this with both perspectives. So giving more health to bosses just could mean give more damage on the table for the ogryn. A solution could be give damage resistance to bosses against some instances, like the example before given.
My max boss damage (only against bosses, not for the entire match) match with zealot is 500k and with ogryn is 600k.
I am all on Bosses to be more of a threat, but just by nerfing unyielding damage on TH will not fix a thing.
P.S. I don’t speak english so there might be some errors, and i wanted to leave some videos of the examples i gave but im to lazy to copy/paste them, if u don’t believe me pls just search for them in reddit or discord idk. The build i use Massive Bonks - Build for Darktide - Darktide WH40k
Can I get an explanation + video on this one by someone. I run Kraks with Tinkerer and Bring it down + Tag and it doesn’t delete bosses for me in seconds it just deals a large chunk of health damage.
That is what i meant with “deleting bosses”, a recon lasgun might not kill a boss in 2 seconds but for sure it can “delete” his health, making the battle against it super easy, this same happen with kraks.
Discussion with Thunder hammer boss damage was if you should or should not be able to just 1shot a boss or delete it in seconds. I’d have a hard time thinking about a setup that can actually do this kind of deleting currently, outside of “perfect test setups”.
Vet + Krak definitely doesn’t delete bosses just deals a good chunk of damage fast.
Bolter with a proper build needs at least 2 full mags to do it solo with VoC unload into the head setup.
Gunlugger definitely melts bosses slightly too fast and with minimal effort, but even that isn’t TH oneshot.
I remember seeing some MKV setup on Vet with some ridiculous min-maxing and all headshots doing it relatively fast (2 mags?) in psyc. That’s brutal, but delete?
Even the tag, full ult buff Caxe clip from a week ago with AI disabled killing spawn in like 5-6 (headshot) hits I’ve seen was a “good luck doing it in a live game” kinda video.
So it’s just for the “visual” of it then, if u are a TH player, u know how much buff/perks/blessings are needed to do that task, and without how much it could take to get those buffs and time for a second charged hit with a weapon that for sure doean’t have the survivavility/speed of a knife.
I found this, im not sure if there have been any tweak to it since then but this doesn’t look that fair, second most of the “one-shots” on normal bosses are done by using shourdfield (something that i did talk about in my post), the "one-shots"that players normally see and do are on weakened bosses, bosses that with the correct build can be “deleted” with 2 kraks.
Maybe, but when a troope of them comes at u, that one-shot could be really needed, specially in a theme where other classes can just put a krak on them or light them on fire.
Yeah, but that’s what I’m talking about. It’s a “showcase” build that is absolute damage maximized for kraks that also gets lucky with having one of the twin at the end.
Meanwhile TH eating up DHs in 2 hits is something you can actually see in a live game. Actual deleting of boss in a few seconds that you can do with some regularity and without burning any resources like 3 (4) nades.
If it can oneshot (at least on head) with +unyielding on weapon and purge the unclean it’s fine IMO. If it need more than that it starts to get iffy.
I don’t know about that, i really have been in matches where bosses are “deleted” multiple times, and it wasn’t a “showcase”, if you can’t pulled it or have never seen it happen that’s fair, but for sure kraks makes bosses an easy threat and that was my point. I want bosses to be a threat, but if the only thing that u think make bosses less of a threat is the TH i think you are wrong, if everything that can deal with bosses easily is nerfed im 100% with it, but if only TH gets nerfed that is just not adressing the real problem.
I honestly never seen anyone deleting a boss in seconds with kraks in a live game. Never. Honestly I don’t think I even seen it before the kraks got nerfed.
The video you linked also shows how much you need to make it happen. An absolutely dedicated build + a lot of luck, and it’s only enough for the boss with the least amount of health. 3 Kraks on a full focus build couldn’t even kill it.
Even with nerfed Boss damage TH will be a premium anti-boss weapon, and thanks to some of the buffs it will be easier to duel bosses with it than ever.
You writing stuff like
Which just isn’t true just muddies the water.
I can even agree that some setups just way to good against bosses basically out of the box (so no big specialized investment) like some Gunlugger builds, and some stuff are just broken (Shroudfield double hit), but as it stands most boss-bursting just deals some great burst damage to the boss instead of outright deleting them.
Yes that is what i meant, TH will still be a good way to deal with bosses, but if only TH is nerfed you’ll see that is not the only way to make them a easy fight (delete, that is what i mean by “delete”, if u didn’t read the last part i varely speak english, make an extra effort), and probably other builds weapons will be needed to nerf afterwards, and how we know that balance patches comes every half-year im anticipating to that conclusion, and gunlugger builds works in every scenario (maybe not in melee only).
I’m not seeing the connection. We already see that there are anti-boss builds, some might be over-performing and might need a nerf, but I don’t see any connection to TH nerf stopping it from actually one-shotting bosses (unlike the other stuff). If TH falls neatly in line with other boss-bursting build it’s fine.
Incremental improvements are improvements. But i propose we see how things shake but when we get our hands on the weapon. Predicting breakpoints out of patchnotes is pretty hard. If the thammer needs more work, which it may very well, then we can keep suggesting changes. Yet its great to see buffs at last.
I posted a similar concern when I saw unyielding damage get scaled back. Probably wont be a problem for the Crucis with its numbers, but the Ironhelm may suffer. After the update you may pick up breakpoints on Maulers to lose it on Reapers and Bulwarks. A pretty bad trade really. Esp when you can stagger and push maulers to interrupt their dangerous animations and have to perfectly time the shot to damage the bulwark.
(edit): This is only worth mentioning because the Crucis is picking up some of the ironhelms functionality in this update: Some cleave. Easy access to vertical swings (where ironhelm will require a push or heavy 3 in cue) to bonk heads. Self stun is being radically reduced. Ironhelm will still be faster, but the difference will be much narrower.
About Boss damage. I hope TH is still top tier in terms of boss DPS, but maybe not as good as it is presently.
krak grenades can deal a lot of damage and not only they remove lot of chunk health but they also stagger the bosses, meaning they can save people from grabs etc, and making bosses fall to ledges with some positioning (expect BoN)
staggering bosses can be massive, especially if you can do thrice etc.
honestly the fact right now T.hammer crucis has the good unyielding damage, you barely see anyone bringing in auric damnation anyway, even though it’s still a fine weapon.
because people can quickly kill bosses anyway with other weapons that Crucis doesn’t make sense, so nerfing the good thing, it would make the weapon kinda unfun despite the new buffs.
i still think even if buffed, crucis should be still be somewhat a specialized boss weapon because useful for special modifiers like weakned bosses where they can spawn more than 3 bosses, or those occasion where people wrongly aggro DH, and you can save them because of Crucis