We all know hammers haven’t had a great utility in the overall game since launch apart from killing bosses or separeted big targets, but lately im having problems with it like:
Is fine when u kill a crusher fast with it, the problem is when 6 other crushers, bulwarks, maulers and ragers come behind it too. Is still possible to clear them but it takes a considerable amount of effort considering that it can be done faster and easier for other weapons like the crusher, eviscerator, combat axe, chainaxe, knife, etc.
Considering how much time passes since u activate the hammer and the post-stunned state that u get when hitting (and im not saying anything about ghost hits), it leaves me a little confuse when i don’t oneshot the crusher, this is obviously when u are not using any buff, skill or blessing. I know that with martydom, Thrust, fury of the faithful, shroudfield and +25 carapace/unyielding damage u can kill anything, but thats my point, u need to have those augmentations other way the weapon feels weak by itself.
That middle part was an exaggeration, pls don’t send me clips in the meat grinder pointing that u can do a breakpoint on some enemy with less buffs cause bananas.
Ragers, when im fighting against ragers is not particularly difficult to deal with them, the problem is the little damage that i do to them, usually i find my self throwing them to one place to another like 7 times before they die, wasting to much time.
I still think ironhelm patron attack is awful
Lately i find myself taking more damage fighting an horde that i can remember from months before (apart from skill issue i think it might be caused by taking other abilities/skills, decreasing cleave and impact)
Solutions that might fix my overall skill issue:
I know it sounds crazy, but what about some radius damage like the indignatus crusher.
Special attack do damage to bulwark through his shield(not so much, mabe 1/3 of is health).
Make stun of special attack just visual and stop slowing us, soo we can dodge freely (ik it might feel less “impactful” but i still prefer utility over visual looks).
More damage against carapace and maniac
Special attack from ironhelm (cleave small enemies until hit a bigger mass enemy) works on crucis too.
Patern attack for ironhelm should be just and only strikedowns for heavys and relentless for lights, making it the opposite of crucis. In combination with the point above it will make a sustancial diference on whats your favorite hammer cause crucis will still be very good on fighting hords, hitting mutis on movement, now +finding the correct target for special attack. And ironhealm will be used for more damage, easier to hit weakspots and “lighter” way to approach hords.
I think that is all, since launch i have practically only use crucis soo i might be wrong on some takes… yea i think that was all i have to say about hammers, cya.
PLS im beggin, put fsr 3 in the game i really need those frames.
i think they are great weapons too, specialy on boss damage, but at the end of the mission when i compare kills/damage with other weapons like eviscerator or combat axe they really fall of, and boss damage is not that far to other weapons anyway
Bosses get obliterated regularly if not bullied by everyone, this single qualification doesn’t really cut it. Its just not worth the squeeze of lag start up lag charge lag on end hit for something that doesn’t instantly kill the rest of the game too (without thrust and either of the 2 damage ults). That will always be the main problem. If you hit anything smaller than a boss in the spine with it they should just die. Then it would at least be entertaining for how immobile and slow attacking it is (which is anathema to playing Zealot really).
Also right now Mk15 Eviscerator can kill Daemons before resist death proccs with a combat stim and FoTF. Its literally 3 heavies.
Hello I will agree that other weapons are better right now. I doubt that with a buff the Hammer will find a use
I think that a better use of the Dev time is to create a new weapon. Something like the Power Halberd comes to mind. A weapon that has a little bit of cleave, can reach enemies at a distance, high damage, and armor piercing
Spears were the melee weapons with reach in Vermintide 2. I am surprised Darktide didn’t receive one
I would really hate to see the identity of the hammers altered that much. I like how crucis and ironhelm are different, personally. Crucis having the better standard weapon profile with a higher skill ceiling higher payoff special activation, and ironhelm having a more complicated standard profile with an easier to use special activation with lower payoff.
I think it would be fair if all the hammers did some damage to everything under the point of impact, like the new shovels (which hit harder ). Even if that damage was a tremendous falloff, but the stagger was still there, it could help mitigate the lag time from activation, and then stacking thrust, and then the self stun of hitting someone. I’d love seeing a mechanic like terrifying barrage built in to the special activation.
decided to run a couple missions with the ironhelm. The video is long, and there are a lot of ghost hits, but you can see the animations are super manageable. It kills slowly lol, but it is very usable.
The hammers don’t work because they don’t offer anything that a plasma gun doesn’t for far less risk and far more effectiveness.
If a charged heavy one-shot a crusher without having to stack talents and thrust IV and everything else, they would be far more workable. As it stands they don’t work well in their role.
Unfortunately I don’t really use any mods. I can’t be 100% sure how impactful I am being. I’m sure its not as much as a really optimized weapon choice.
I know as someone that started later on/largely after the holidays (but have still put 500 hours into the game and counting), I will say also playing next to a full Zealot main with me jumping around between the classes, the hammer feels like total but cheeks and definitely a product of it’s time that needs help.
As you say the new Evisorator just dwarfs it in everything. Savage Sweep + Bloodthirsty and you 1 shot crushers with hardly any further set up and cleave waves enough to stun ragers into death. You 2 shot anything small and just walk through most specials with a rev and half a cleave, and it just does so much more so much better than a hammers. Sure, yes, you won’t 2 shot a boss, but you’ll just be so much more useful everywhere else while still CHUNKINg bosses with every hit so it makes the hammer just feel so much worse.
So much lag on a hit that does flat out nothing against anything that matters, I don’t want to encourage ubiquity between the weapons but with as much emphasis they put on the hits, it really feels like a maxed out hammer should just insta kill anything it hits. I’d be totally fine if they re-worked it to do more damage to Carapace and possibly less to Unyeilding, but the problem is is that is just what the chain weapons already are.
So I feel they want the hammers to do mad damage to unarmored and unyielding, but that in turn makes them feel incredibly bad when you can do that AND just do massive damage to armor with the Eviserator. Doesn’t help it has a ‘pen’ stat that seems to do absolutely nothing for the weapon, so yeah.
Hammers are just in a bad spot, and definitely need a look into. Not sure in what way, but they certainly need help, especially with the number of Zealots I see trying to use them.
A lot of what makes them feel bad is just comparing them to other things around. What your team comp is totally makes a big difference. I just played a mission next to two of the worst complements to the hammer in a team comp. An ogryn with the new shovel and the grenade launcher. His shovel basically fills your melees niche and does it better. Then his range will frequently blow up things in your face, covering your field of vision with smoke and killing the things that would normally give you toughness lol. Then, a plasma veteran.
I recorded the mission. I mean, I didn’t feel useless this mission, but it was definitely a mission where you struggle not to overlap with your allies too much, because they are looking for the same kind of targets and can handle it better.
While yes, ‘not everything should be compared to everything and stuff can still be good when not as good as other things’ and what not, the thing about the thunder hammer is that it isn’t as effective as ANYTHING anyone else can do, and also isn’t as effective as anything the Zealot themselves can do!
This isn’t to say that ‘ohh don’t have fun with it’, but more that it does feel it needs to be looked at because when my Veteran activates his power sword in a quarter the time and does 3 light swings and clears the wave/kills a crusher (with the Blessing that lets you keep the charge through 3 hits), and my Ogryn Bonks a wave with his shield and kills all the small fry while sending everyone (even crushers) falling on their butts, and even my Zealot drops and entire wave in seconds with a few lights wings of the Evisorator
It’s just, so very hard not to look at ALL of that and then look at the hammer and go ‘yep, I’m actively worse in every way. My light attacks take 2 hits to kill the small fry WHILE knocking them away from me so I have to run after them. My heavy hit has no cleave/actively removes all cleave from the weapon and can only 1 shot unarmored specials. And the active hit actively stuns me and makes me a sitting duck for anything that I didn’t hit to just send me to meet the emperor’.
You can make up for it with like a Boltgun and a dream, but when it’s a classes ‘specific weapon’ that otherwise feels like it has so much care and effort put in to how it feels to use, it just feels like it should be comparable, you know?
You’re right. It’s a very specialized weapon that doesn’t deliver on it’s purported niche: armor busting. I think killing maulers with a single charged and thrusted heavy with plus carapace on both hammers, with a roll of 75+ on damage and first target would be a good start. Maybe reserving crusher one-tapping to the crucis would help keep its identity.
If we compare it to the shovels, it’s going to to be hard to not ask both hammers to do at least that well at armor busting with special activation on.
Kudos for stimming the other dude (who then dodged it) then actually picking up the red and getting him to get the green. I bet if it was not green it would get left behind with all the plasteel they ignore.
Pings+Blocks+pushes ftw.
I will agree that other weapons are better right now. I doubt that with a buff the Hammer will find a use
). Even if that damage was a tremendous falloff, but the stagger was still there, it could help mitigate the lag time from activation, and then stacking thrust, and then the self stun of hitting someone. I’d love seeing a mechanic like terrifying barrage built in to the special activation.
